http://themobilegarden.org/ (H/T: Gordon Werner)
http://themobilegarden.org (H/T: Gordon Werner)

I have to admit that I’m actually pretty pessimistic about just about all the races we’ve endorsed this year, aside from City Council ones. Off year elections draw older-than-average voters, and whether liberal or conservative older voters don’t trend very left-wing on our issues.

In other news, Central Link is 3 months old today!

What’s on your mind?

84 Replies to “Sunday Open Thread”

  1. Are there any people here that live on/near Alki and still find a way to be car-free?

    I’ve found a ton of very attractive apartments on Alki/Harbor Aves, but it seems that when the water taxi is not “in-season”, the transit choices are atrocious (well, even in the summer it’s less than desirable, but in the winter it downright sucks). Just wondering if anyone has made it work; I’m sure that a bike is part of the equation…

    1. I grew up over there and still housesit in the area. 56/56X are great in the daytime but not so good on nights and sundays; the 37 comes by now and then. Grocery shopping in the Admiral District at Metropolitan Market or at the CA/AK junction at QFC (or Safeway if you are so inclined) almost always would requires a car or a ride from a friendly neighbour. If you could find a suitable place in the Admiral District you could definitely thrive w/o a car – 55, 56, 56X, 57, 128 and the free water taxi connector all meet at CA and Admiral.

    2. There’s a Metro operator that I talked to once that lives in the area and is car free. He drives a motorcycle to work (Central Base). He was a part timer; not sure what else he did.

    3. Had a good friend who lived rent-free in one of those Alki condos for many years. He had a car but rarely used it, the area is quite accessible for cyclists who don’t mind riding in the street — just stay visible and stay out of the gutter. Riding those hills is cheaper than joining a health club. And if groceries are your concern, have them delivered.

    4. The water taxi will be year-round starting next year. So if you can tough it out through this winter, you’ll have a great option available starting next spring.

  2. Anyone know when Metro will reevaluate bus changes made along MLK? If traveling to a non-link station during non-peak hours (after 6pm), wait times are between 30 and 40 minutes.

    1. I hear Metro’s doing a before/after survey of the bus changes with riders.

      Before the big changes, the 42 ran every 30 minutes until 1 am and the 48 ran down MLK every 30 minutes until 8 pm after which it ends at MLK & Walden. In Feb 2010, the 8 will run every 15 minutes during the non-peak midday hours creating frequent service from 7 am to 6 pm. No news on night service improvements.

    2. pds,

      You’re exaggerating just a bit. The 8 runs every 30 minutes, so sure, sometimes you wait 40 minutes, but it’s often a lot less than that.

      1. How is it exaggerating if I said that wait times are between 30 and 40? They are!

        The bigger issue is this.

        MLK used to have 2 42’s and 2 48’s going past Alaska every hour. That is now down to 2. What’s the point of taking light rail if the connecting 8 comes once every 30 minutes?

        I hadn’t heard that they are increasing to 15 minutes in February, so that’s good news.

        As a side note, my teenagers wish they would choose the larger buses during the high school commute. They are currently driving by stops with no room.

        1. It’s between 30 and 40 if you make a habit of walking out just as the previous bus passes by. With 30 minute headways you should average a 15-20 minute wait if you pay no attention to the schedule at all.

        2. I have to echo Martin here – I’ve tried the 8 several times, and never waited more than 20 minutes.

  3. I have a general question about transit uniforms (and i’m also thinking generally across the country), sometimes I see operators/drivers in a uniform and other times not, does it vary by operator or by day, is it by choice? When did the transit uniform with tie and police-like hat go away like this…

    Example 1

    Example 2

    I would love to see this uniform come back as it looks really professional.

    1. All on-duty personnel must wear the regulation uniform except that the uniform is optional for Communications Coordinators and Schedule Makers. Communication Coordinators and Schedule Makers who choose not to wear the uniform must dress in appropriate business attire. Any clothing worn to work must fit well, be clean, well pressed and in good condition. The uniform can only be worn to and from work and while on duty. When in uniform, First-line Supervisors are not to be seen at inappropriate locations, including but not limited to taverns, bars and liquor stores.

      Neckties and suspenders are optional and the color must be compatible with the uniform.
      Shirts, sweaters, vests, jackets, parkas, hats/caps, coveralls worn must display the Metro Supervisor logo.
      The turtleneck pullover must not be worn as an outer garment unless it displays the Metro Supervisor logo.
      Coveralls are only to be worn over the regulation uniform.
      Belts and shoes must be dark leather and polishable. Shoes must be clean and polished.
      Shoes purchased through the uniform voucher or reimbursement process must be for the Supervisor’s personal use while at work. Police style motorcycle riding boots, riding boots, clogs, platform shoes, soles in excess of one-half inch, tennis shoes, moccasins, sandals, open toes or heels over two inches are not permitted. A Chief may request to see any shoes purchased with the uniform voucher or reimbursement process to verify that they are work shoes.

      assignments that require operation of Metro equipment.
      Operators reporting for non-driving duties or non-driving training may wear acceptable casual clothing that is appropriate to the workplace.
      When in uniform, operators are not to engage in unauthorized activities or to be seen in inappropriate locations including, but not limited to taverns, bars, etc. (Except designated comfort stations.)

      The authorized operator wardrobe includes:
      • Regulation blue/green parka
      • 15/25 Year Red/Blue/Green/Yellow Safety Award Jacket
      • Regulation blue fleece jacket/vest
      • Regulation navy blue sweater v-neck long sleeved pullover
      • Regulation forest green or navy blue cardigan sweater
      • Regulation blue long sleeved and short sleeved dress shirt
      • Regulation forest green knit polo shirt
      • White or navy blue long sleeved turtleneck
      • Navy blue or khaki colored pants or regulation shorts (length to be altered only as required to fit as designed)
      • Regulation baseball cap or other authorized headwear (see below)
      • Brown or black belt
      • Appropriate footwear for the
      • Neckties and suspenders

      Belts must be black or brown. If pants or shorts have belt loops, a belt must be worn.
      Shoes must have non-skid soles. For safety reasons, platform shoes, heels over two inches high, soles in excess of one inch, open toes or heels, tennis shoes, moccasins, sandals and clogs are not permitted. Shoes with coils in the heels are acceptable as long as the coils are enclosed. All shoes must meet King County Metro approval.
      Socks should be compatible with the uniform.
      Shirts with tails must be tucked into pants. If an open collar shirt is worn with a t-shirt, the t-shirt must be plain white, clean and in good repair.
      Optional Items
      Neckties and suspenders: The color must be compatible with the uniform. Neckties and suspenders must not have logos or messages that are offensive. For safety reasons, clip-on ties are preferred.
      Sweaters and fleece jacket/vest: The cardigan and v-neck sweaters, the sweater vest and the fleece jacket liner must be worn over a uniform shirt or turtleneck.
      Turtleneck pullover: The white or navy blue turtleneck pullovers that do not display the King County METRO logo must be worn with a long sleeved dress shirt, a sweater, a sweater vest, or the fleece jacket/vest. They are intended to accentuate the dress shirt and to provide warmth.
      Maternity wear: Metro approved maternity clothing must be comparable in color and style to the standard operator uniform and may be purchased with a uniform voucher from the uniform vendor.
      Authorized Uniform Headwear (only authorized headwear may be worn):
      • Black safari hat with a reinforced brim and matching cloth trim
      • Black fedora hat
      • Regulation navy blue baseball styled cap with King County METRO logo
      • Roadeo cap, issued for participants in the latest Roadeo only
      • Baseball cap with base or other specialized logos authorized by the supervisor at a particular base. Caps recognizing a specific event such as the annual Base Safety Contest may be worn for up to one (1) year from the date of the event, unless otherwise specified.
      • Regulation navy blue watch cap with King County METRO logo
      • Regulation navy blue beret with King County METRO logo

      It goes on and on from there…

  4. What is the latest on the opening date for Airport Link? The Central Link opening date was announced about three months in advance, so we’re overdue for an announcement.

    1. Rumors floating around the base hint that work assignments for rail operators will start on December 5. Another flavor of the same rumors say that “revenue” service may not begin on that date but trains will operate without passengers to the airport station until “revenue” service begins (insert your own rumor here).

      Or maybe I got this totally wrong! Tentative was a word mentioned many times.

      2. Will the hours of operation be extended once the airport station is open? Or once the 194 is killed?

        Currently the first train from Seattle is supposed to arrive Seatac airport at 5:57am Mon-Sat and 5:56am Sunday. A train from Seattle needs to arrive starting at 5am 7 days a week to serve both passengers and airport employees.

        It looks like the scheduled last train departures from the airport all the way to Seattle is at 12:07am Mon-Fri, 12:04am Sat, and 11:05pm Sun. Service is needed until 1am 7 days a week as there are late flights 7 days a week.

        1. Typo – first train on Sundays arrives at 6:56am – meaning you can’t make any flight before 8:00am.

        3. Why? My earliest regular flight has been 8:35, and I fly an awful lot. Sure, you sometimes get crazy 6am flights, but for that you can take the bus.

        4. If you arrive at 7am for an 8:30 flight, that’s cutting it a bit close. Especially for an international flight.

        5. Yeah, that sucks. It’s not exactly the 5 a.m.-1 a.m. service that’s touted when you really think about it.

        6. It is on weekdays, and like Phoenix, we’ll probably run them later on heavy use nights in the future.

          This is no different than any other transit system.

        7. I don’t know if there’s funding for it, but I heard rumor in the past of a 195, Airport to Downtown Owl Express.

  5. I find this year’s election extremely depressing, and as an “older voter” I resent your implications. Don’t get me started generalizing about “younger voters”, foolish puppy.

      1. No resentment from this (greying) corner, John, but make sure when you are talking “more conservative” that you are reflecting Seattle’s older voters, and not a national or even statewide “trend” – I think you’ll find those of us who came of age in the 1960s and still live within the city limits as a pretty liberal bunch.

        1. It’s not debatable. Demographically, sociologically, however you want to measure it, older voters trend more conservative. But are there exceptions? Of course! No one denies that.

        3. I crafted my words really carefully, for once. I said “on our issues” for a reason.

          In general, show me a older self-identified liberal, and I’ll show you someone who’s really strong on the social justice side of liberalism but somewhat less so on the environment, skeptical of big-money establishment infrastructure projects like rail, and even less likely to make the connection between environmentalism and urban land use. The poster boys for this brand of liberalism are David Bloom and Nick Licata.

          And, as Kenneth said, the most important votes this cycle are probably I-1033 (statewide) and King County Exec.

    2. What am I implying? I’m flat out saying that younger voters are more likely to vote for rail transit!

      1. IF they vote.

        And an irrefutable generalization that CAN be made is that over the last couple of decades, the under-35s haven’t exercised their franchise as frequently as we might wish they would. So, just another gentle reminder – the envelopes which arrived from the county last week contains your ballot which should be marked and sent in before election day.

        1. Yes. He’s saying that in these elections, younger voters unfortunately don’t vote as much as usual, so most of the voters are older, and they tend to be more conservative.

  6. Uniforms, with tie and hat, was made to resemble military uniforms, especially after WWI and WWII.

    Nowadays, it is a more casual look, just like in businesses, where men try to drop the tie as soon as possible.

  7. I find it depressing that transit concerns are so easily marginalized as left-wing issues, even among their supporters.

    Our current car-dominated system is a model of an inefficient socialized market — billions of dollars of inefficient, indirect subsidies for motorists, billions more paying for the unintended consequences of those subsidies, like motor vehicle accidents, epidemic obesity, and general disregard for law and order on the road.

    Get out of this left-wing box and find ways to appeal to the center and right. They are anything but inherently leftist. Remember, il duce claimed punctual, efficient trains as a gleaming symbol of all that was right with fascism.

      1. Okay well, show me a high profile republican leader who advocates for public transit like the democrats tend to and then we’ll talk.

    2. I’m quite to the right politically and socially and I vote for transit. It is best to gather transit friends of all groups and not view conservatives as the enemy. ST2 would not have passed without many, many conversative friends.

  8. Does anyone think that an underground LRT line below 23rd Ave should be built in the future to connect the UW/North Link stations to the MLK Way alignment? Are there enough north-south non-downtown riders to make it successful?

    1. I definitely think there needs to be more stops in the capitol hill neighbourhood. It’s insane to me that Link won’t stop even once between CapHill and UW.

      They’ll definitely invest in more transit in that corridor in the future, but it’ll most likely be a streetcar.

    2. Probably not. Most riders are either going from the south end to Downtown and same goes for north end riders. There aren’t too many commuters that need to bypass downtown.

      1. The 48 which goes down 23rd is one of metro’s highest ridership routes.

        I don’t see building a tunnel all the way from Montlake to Mt. Baker but either an elevated line or a mixed traffic surface line could be a possibility. Who knows by the time such a line is even on the radar perhaps the political will to take ROW from cars will be there.

        2. Cool photo – pretty definitely looking south to where Garfield HS would have been under construction on the left side as the street goes up that rise. A number of those houses are still extant. One has to wonder how the streetcars did on the hill between Boyer and Aloha in rainy/snowy weather.

      2. UW is the second largest commute destination in the region (after downtown Seattle). If you combine students, faculty, staff, employees who work in the district but not at the UW and the retail customers of U-Village, you have a major regional destination. It probably doesn’t justify a tunnel, but significant is in order. The north-south corridor through central seattle along 23rd also represents a great opportunity for infill development. The best solution would be a streetcar with linear TOD (rather than nodal).

        1. Personally I think some sort of light rail (underground, at-grade, or elevated) should be used on 23rd for regional connections.

          I am not too familiar with the area so maybe a streetcar would be better.

    3. My (probably crazy) idea is a underground line starting downtown, stopping in First Hill, the CD, North Capitol Hill, and Madison Park before going under Union Bay then popping out and stopping at Children’s/Laurelhurst, the U Village, Brooklyn Station, Wallingford, West Woodlawn, Ballard, and finally Shilshole. Suppplemented, of course, by plenty of streetcars.

    4. I think it depends on the time scale. In Sound Transit 3? No. Sound Transit 4? Probably not. By the time Sound Transit 18 passes? Definitely.

    5. You couldn’t do it, that tunnel will be full of trains. The headways needed for Northgate-Downtown preclude any use of the North Link tunnel for anything else.

  9. I’m bracing myself for the worst-case scenario in this election. I had thought at least the I-1033 would go down, but after seeing King County’s messed up ballots, I’m not so sure.

    1. Hopefully even if 1033 passes the courts will toss it out. I know it would be better to defeat it at the ballot box, but even if it passes not all will be necessarily lost. Hell it might even be just what is needed to start serious talk of tax reform in Olympia.

      1. Exactly. This one will be so bad, and the cuts so unpleasent and broad, that we might have Olympia take on tax reform. I wish we also updated the initiatives rules, so you have pass initiatives with a supermajority of the votes in the last governer’s race.

      2. HAHAHAHAHAHA.

        The spineless legislature will find a way to respect the “will of the voters” on 1033 just as they did on the renewable energy other Eyman initiatives.

      3. I think you’re right. Passage of I-1033 will result in an income tax during the next legislative session.

  10. I’ve seen polls that say McGinn and Mallahan are even. And I’ve seen polls that say there’s a near 10 point difference in favor of Mallahan. I don’t know what to think.

    Anyway, what’s official Metro/ST protocol regarding passenger capacity on buses and bypassing stops? I was on a morning run on the 556 to Downtown Bellevue, and the bus was pretty full, not at crushload but we could have fit maybe 4-6 more aboard if everyone squeezed. The driver then asked if anyone was getting off at the South Bellevue PR, they should request a stop. No one did, and she blazed right past two passengers at the P&R, who lifted their hands in disbelief. She passed a third person waiting on 112th and muttered an apologetic: “Oooh..sorryy.” She doesn’t normally take that shift, so I’ve never seen it happen outside that incident (only once in Hawaii), so what’s the policy about that?

    1. Don’t know what official policy is, but common courtesy says your operator should’ve stopped and explained how full the bus was.

      1. I’ve never seen a driver do that… Part of the thing is when they’re incredibly full they also tend to be pretty late.
        The two SB 48s that get to Garfield before school starts are always incredibly full and pass up a lot of people up in the morning runs. Luckily the school has changed it’s policy of giving detention even if this happens… Or they were just being nice the day it happened to me.

      2. From the Metro “BOOK”, paraphrased,
        Only pass up customers when:
        A. Your late, can see your follower who is doing the identical route you are.
        B. Your ‘overloaded’ and must call the coordinator as to where, how many, etc
        C. OVERLOADS:
        . No more riders than you can safely handle
        . Rider must not block your view of the doorway or R.Side mirror
        . Ask riders to move to the rear
        . Advise riders to not sit in the stairwells
        D. When the coach is disabled
        E. When transferring coaches between bases
        F. When scheduled for ‘limited stops’ express
        G. When directed by a supervisor

        That pretty much leaves the definition of overloads up to the driver– within reason.
        Hope that helps.

        1. I hope that isn’t a direct quote. That spelling is terrible for a major county operation. “Your?”

        2. Is this better?

          When you are operating late, can see your follower and are operating to the same destination and with the same stop options (local/express) as your follower, you may pass up every other stopping point where persons are waiting to board (providing there are no requests to get off the coach).

          Another reason why it is important to pass up passengers: All coaches have weight limits. If you put too much weight in it, it doesn’t drive well and has the sudden urge to tip. And because there can be up to 1,300 coaches on the road at any given time, that would mean 1,299 of them would not have Keanu Reeves to get everyone to move to the outside.

    2. I was on a full-to-the-gills pre-Link 194 that bypassed a couple unlucky folks in SoDo. It’s been one of my talking points for why Link to the airport kicks the 194’s a**

      1. This is why – pre link – when I was visiting last Christmas, and wanted to specifically make sure I hit the Bus Tunnel (my first time since last I was there, everyone was on the surface):

        PT 500 dropped me off in front of McDonalds before Federal Way TC; ran in for quick bite; hopped on 194 8 minutes later.

        The bus was packed on an off peak trip from Federal Way TC (it was empty leaving 320th) all the way to Westlake

  11. Oh. Alright, so this is funny. I’m sitting inside Suzzallo Library at UW as I type, and apparently, Joe Mallahan is sitting right across from me. What on earth he’s doing on campus, I’m not sure. But if I can, I’m gonna pull him aside and ask him to clarify his position on transit. Realistically, there’s a good chance he’ll get elected, so we’ll need the scoop on what he’s gonna do for us transit advocates.

    2. Okay, I dragged him aside for 2 minutes as he was heading out for a forum, and asked him to clarify his positions on transit vs. McGinn’s and the First Hill Streetcar. He was in a big hurry so I had no chance to pick a fight, but here’s what he essentially said.

      He claims that McGinn focusing on the AWV-surface deal would consume McGinn’s efforts to effectively pursue transit expansion. He talked a lot of expanding bus service hours (though I don’t know how that’s going to be possible) and effective management so that ST2 can be completed on time so future line extensions are possible. He did not clarify whether or not he supports such extensions.

      As far as the FH Streetcar goes, he says what we’ve known all along. That he’s expressed concerns about the efficiency and cost, but will let it go forward if it comes in on time and on budget.

      I thanked him, and he scattered. No surprises from him and nothing to change anyone’s mind.

      1. Oh, and he said he opposes First Ave. Streetcar with the reasoning that it’s so close to 3rd, a “dedicated transit way”, which is not entirely true. Again, nothing new.

        1. Third isn’t the same transit market as First. Besides Third is so clogged with buses adding a streetcar wouldn’t help matters, not to mention issues with the vents for the tunnel stations.

        2. Yeah, I realize. Third is much more commuter oriented. Personally, I think the reasoning is a farce. He just opposes streetcars in general. The only reason why he can’t with FH is since it’s voter and council approved.

        3. Third is so clogged with buses adding a streetcar wouldn’t help matters

          It would if every high capacity streetcar were to replace two buses. And unless Seattle goes it alone with funding the construction and operations those streetcar hours are going to eat heavily into bus hours so it had better.

          I think you’d also have a better chance of then converting 3rd into a true transit only ROW or at least a road that required a Commercial Drivers License (perhaps special permit, which would require a fee to allow delivery vehicles and cabs).

          All the routes through downtown are heavily congested. 3rd by far has the best connections to all other transit and is more centrally located than 1st. Baring the conversion of another road to transit only I think 3rd makes the most sense. However, if 1st were considered as a transit only corridor following a post viaduct reconfiguration it would be easier to implement signal priority on than 3rd.

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  13. I would have to say that Second/Forth Avenue is more of a commuter corridor than Third Avenue is. Third is more of the electric trolley busway and Second is the regional buses and First is more Intercity/West Seattle buses.

    With that said, I have always wondered why the 10/12 goes down First Avenue instead of Third Avenue…

    1. So that folks coming from the Ferry dock on the Marion Street overpass don’t have to walk up the hill?

    2. Perhaps because First Avenue used to be the primary trolley bus corridor until they moved most of them to Third?

      A photocopy I have of a map from 1988 had the 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 10, 12, 13, 36 and 43 (basically all trolley routes at the time) use 1st Ave downtown. Maybe because of tunnel construction? The 1, 2, 3, 4 and 13 exit north of downtown via 3rd from 1st and Virginia St. The 2, 3, 4 head east from downtown via The 7, 10, 14, 43 enter downtown from Pine St to 7th Ave to Union St and exit via Pike St from 1st. The 2, 3, 4 bahh… I’ll just scan the thing and upload it.

      Here, see the Downtown Seattle bus map from 1988

  14. anyone have any pictures of the former car barn for the streetcar line? any old pictures of the line itself would be cool.

    also what was on the site of the current convention center station and were there ever any plans to cover it?

  15. yes Oran the waterfront streetcar, i should have clarified.
    thanks for the pics, i’m gonna check them out now.

    i find the design of the convention center station to be so weird but i kinda like it.

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