43 Replies to “Podcast #99: Intensely disappointing”

  1. I just listened to the first part of the podcast (North Seattle Metro / Link restructures). There is something very important that was not talked about: SDOT, and the role they played in the restructure. To quote from the page on the 62 (https://publicinput.com/Customer/File/Full/393ae679-c693-451c-900c-365c38a01c37):

    To reduce pavement maintenance costs in the coming years, Metro will not be pursuing operations along Latonta Avenue NE and NE 56thStreet in the East Green Lake and Tangletown neighborhoods as part of this project

    In other words, SDOT didn’t want them to move the buses. It had nothing to do with the neighborhood. This is an important story that isn’t getting enough coverage. It isn’t restricted to this change. I’ve heard that SDOT is balking on bus service on Harrison, in South Lake Union. A route using that would be major improvement in transit for that area (especially if it had bus lanes) but SDOT is balking on such changes — citing budgetary concerns. Fair enough, but what is it spending money on, and how much would the changes cost?

    There are important improvements to mobility in this city that need cooperation with SDOT. We need to know they are dragging their feet so we can put pressure on them to make the right changes.

    1. You would think that pavement maintenance would be trivial compared to the $150/hr it costs to actually operate each bus. It should not be dictating bus routes.

      1. You would think that, but different pots of money and different sources of money (SDOT vs Metro, levy+sales tax+property tax vs sales tax+fare). This is one of many disadvantages to not considering transportation holistically. The really infuriating thing is that I doubt Metro is completely responsible for pavement deterioration given that the 26 is not all that frequent right now on Latona. Too bad we can’t charge drivers “fares” (tolls) to (ab)use our shared infrastructure, though, except in very limited places.

      2. @asdf,

        Pavement costs are not trivial.

        But regardless of the cost, Metro should pay for all pavement refurbishment costs that are clearly the result of their use. Doesn’t matter if they are small or large. If Metro caused the damage, than Metro should pay.

      3. No, pavement costs aren’t nothing. But, common sense says it’s far less than $150/bus hour.

        We can make the debate of whether sdot should pay or metro should pay, but as long as sdot is funding a large chunk of the bus service in Seattle, the bill ultimately comes back to sdot anyway, so it doesn’t make much difference.

      4. Thanks, asdf2. Figure I’ve been waiting for. If it costs $150 per hour to operate a bus, then every minute of delay costs the system forty cents. Per vehicle.

        When we figure in things like brake wear from over-frequent stopping, loss of passenger goodwill, and accumulated stress on drivers….these things add up.

        Mark Dublin

  2. Regarding Wallingford: It is a large area — more like a bunch of different neighborhoods, rather than one. It is more like Ballard (that includes Crown Hill) rather than Crown Hill.

    45th — It is experiencing hard times, but I expect it to rebound after Covid. The Wallingford Center area will remain popular, and shops along 45th (each direction) will as well. There is a little bit of apartment growth here, but a lot of the home owners aren’t selling (and like most of Seattle, the zoning is focused mostly on the corridor and maybe a block or two outside it).

    South Wallingford — This too can be broken up into different sections. Stone Way is where most of the growth is. From one side to the other there is a lot of activity. I also think some of the new buildings are really nice (https://goo.gl/maps/suJ4jNzptbs4X3tF6). Just as Stone Way intersects 45th, it also intersects 34th, another area that seen a lot of growth. This is the Gas Works area, and it now has a lot more apartments, businesses and shops than it did just a few years ago.

    North Wallingford — There are far fewer shops and apartments north of 45th. There is a cluster in Tangletown, as well as 65th and Latona. These areas are small, but charming.

    The rest of Wallingford is typical of Seattle within the old city limits. There are sidewalks everywhere, with nice houses on midsize lots. There are also smatterings of duplexes here and there. This combination of lot size and duplexes pushes up the density a bit, although it is lagging behind areas that have grown. Most of the neighborhoods are defined by how far they are from the nearest park — since some the parks are big attractions. Being close to Green Lake or Gas Works is very attractive, while the proximity to shops is a bonus.

    The previous proposal for the 26 was excellent. It would have covered the main commercial and residential areas of Wallingford, and done so faster. South of 45th, it works with the 31/32 to provide good coverage. North of 45th, it would do a better job of covering the area while running faster. It would also mean that you wouldn’t need the 26, which would be a significant savings. Even the previous proposal — having the 23 do the coverage, while the 62 moved quickly through North Wallingford — was a better plan. It doesn’t mean that transit in North Wallingford would be great, but it would pretty darn good considering the density and geographic challenges.

    1. The opening of the Brooklyn Station- bet me it won’t end up getting named that, especially a superior corned-beef sandwich materializes there- should combine with the Route 44 to seriously energize Wallingford.

      Especially if buses are granted signal priority and lanes of their own. Also can’t help but help Ballard, wherever Link ends up touching down there. Just for the industrial atmosphere, grand finale should be a drawbridge created by a genius.

      Won’t be long now, will it?

      Mark Dublin

    2. Argg — I did it again. I confused the 26 with the 62. I meant to write that:

      The previous proposal for the 62 was excellent.

  3. As I wrote before (in my last two Page 2 posts) the biggest weakness with the latest proposal is the lack of the 61, while retaining the express buses to First Hill and South Lake Union. The latter would pay for the former. You could run the 61 (at least to Greenwood) every 15 minutes all day, opposite the 41 for the cost of those express buses. Then, if they city gets more money, run a few express buses and see if they perform as well as the 61. My guess is they wouldn’t come close — the 61 is a much better value.

  4. Let’s riff on a few RossB points. Consider the budgets of SDOT and Metro; both are in crisis. Perhaps SDOT will be more willing to target pavement management to the streamlined Route 62 pathway on NE 65th and 56th streets if the STBD is approved in the General Election. The Council added some front loaded capital. What better transit flow investment than one that saves several minutes of running time on a short headway route? Moving a frequent route faster helps both agencies and their riders. Note that Kirkwood Place North and Latona Avenue NE are quite close and have a good street grid in between.

    Consider the neighborhoods that are growing a bit. They have charm and mixed use development. The are defacto urban villages with mixed use zoning. They were so in the first third of the 20th Century. TBD has posted a Seattle Municipal Streetcar map of about 1937. The Meridian line served Stone Way North, North 45th Street, Meridian Avenue North, North 55th Street, (Tangletown), NE 56th Street, and Latona Avenue NE.

    SDOT has a project to improve flow on Route 44; it has common stop transfers with Route 62; hopefully, it will get excellent transfers with Link at the Brooklyn station.

    1. Some of the 44 improvements are already underway/complete, for instance extending the westbound bus lane on 45th/Midvale/46th all the way to Stone Way. For better or worse, there actually is enough car traffic right now for it to make a difference for the 44.

  5. I viewed the Link frequency issue as tied to the North Seattle restructure issues. Either all agencies — ST, Metro and SDOT/ City Council — buy into all-day frequent light rail or they don’t. This is a fundamentally structural / political problem.

    Some sort of mutually-adopted agreement with elected Board approval seems to be needed.

    Each agency shouldn’t be making decisions on this all by themselves. The outcome will be to change transit very little because no agency Board can trust the action of other ones.

    If we continue to shrug off watering down the creation of a well-connected transit system based on frequent and faster light rail, we are wasting taxpayer transit capital investments and operating subsidies.

    1. I believe that the pocket track just north of Northgate Station will still be there after Lynnwood Link opens. While not serving the 130th Station with every train is less than optimal, running very frequent service between Northgate and SoDo, perhaps using the Maintenance Facility loop to reverse there without a pocket track will allow Metro to truncate a lot more North Seattle buses and emphasize east-west connections to Link.

      I don’t know whether ST provides the opportunity for municipalities to purchase service, but if that can be worked out some of the STBD funds should be used for such an overlay service. The loss to Metro can be recouped by less north-south running to get to the U District.

      If East and Federal Way Link each run every twelve minutes to live within ST’s lowered revenue expectations, and those every twelve minute lines run four and eight minutes apart instead of six and six, then the “turn” can slot into the middle of the eight minute gap.

      Yes, that means irregular headways north of Northgate, but how horrible is an eight minute wait for the relatively few people who will be riding midday up there?

      1. The turn-backs are not in the optimal places. The big drop-offs in ridership will occur at 45th, 145th, and Northgate. That is where the turn-backs should be. I don’t expect 130th (or 145th) to have the ridership of Northgate, but they should at least be in the same ballpark. Furthermore, both will be highly dependent on feeder bus service, and have good all-day demand. A drop in frequency would lead to a big drop in ridership as a result.

        As a result, Northgate and Lynnwood will benefit. You want high frequency to 45th, but since you can’t turn-back there, you go to Northgate. You want high frequency to 130th and 145th, but since you can’t turn-back at 145th, you go to Lynnwood.

        I think it is possible that in the middle of the day, Link will turn back half of the trips to Lynnwood at Northgate. Assuming ten minute frequency on East Link and South Link, that means five minute frequency for Northgate, but ten minute frequency north of there. That would hammer ridership on both the 130th and 145th. It wouldn’t quite defeat the purpose of those stations (and the considerable expense of the 145th BRT line) but it would really do some damage. Hopefully it doesn’t come to that, since it would also mess up the network. Riders from Lake City would start taking other buses to Link (Northgate or Roosevelt) while Bitter Lake and 522 STride users would just be out of luck. This, in turn, could lead to a reduction in service for crossing bus routes, which would hurt ridership unrelated to Link (e. g. Bitter Lake to Lake City) — thus causing the old ridership-frequency vicious circle. Hopefully it won’t come to that.

        I think if Link is ever extended beyond Lynnwood or Federal Way, that you could see trains turn back there. Running trains to Lynnwood every five minutes in the middle of the day is overkill, but because of 130th and 145th (and to a lesser 185th and the other stations) they get carried along for the ride. It is very hard to time buses like Swift or STride, so running five minutes can be justified. It wouldn’t be just Seattle pushing for it, but Shoreline, Lynnwood and everyone else as well. Some of these areas have more money than others, but I expect Seattle and Shoreline to have more money than Everett or Tacoma.

        Speaking of which, it would be hard to justify five minute headways to Everett. North of Lynnwood, I could even see the train go anywhere from 5, 10, 15 or 20 minutes in the middle of the day. For Tacoma (Dome) it could be worse. Either they have 10 minutes headways, or 20. The latter is not out of the question, as it is still better (albeit slower to Seattle) than they have today.

      2. Northgate and SoDo only makes sense as a peak of peak overlay to alleviate capacity issue, like during a major public event or during major Sounder-Link transfers (4.40~5.20 in the afternoon).

        Otherwise, the high frequency of Link outside of the city core is a feature, not a bug, of the system. The point is to provide high quality frequency to build up that midday ridership, not to calibrate the system to existing ridership.

        This is one reason it’s incredibly powerful to convert Link to driverless technology in the medium term future, as that will allow ST to flex the number of vehicles deployed to meet capacity, but still run train-sets at high frequency all day by flexing down to 3, 2, or even 1 (late night) car trains.

        Under current land use patterns, ridership beyond the ST2 endpoints will be anemic midday, but the ST3 plan assume significant changes in land-use between now and 2040.

      3. Having Seattle buy additional service from ST in addition to Metro is a tricky question. I’ve been wondering when we would discuss it. It’s inevitably going to be a topic I think.

        There is a third turnback track at Rainier Beach — the last Link station to the south. Having a Northgate to Rainier Beach During the 15- minute periods appears technically possible. Still, When Line 2 opens in 2023, this won’t be a very practical operation. Additional service for those times when there is just 30- minute Link service is another extra service purchase option.

        I have mixed feelings about ST Link getting fed by City funding. I fear that the result will be that ST funds less frequent trunk service outside of Seattle, or that ST would shift other funds for more service to suburban areas through ST Express. On the other hand, a train on exclusive track can move lots more riders per hours than a bus on city streets can, which makes it a smarter investment. Wouldn’t an extra Link train driver from Northgate to Rainier Beach be better than an additional bus driver on Route 106 between Rainier Beach and Downtown?

      4. Lynnwood/East Link’s operational configuration has evolved multiple times. At one point ST was considering a 3-line operation with a daytime shuttle Northgate-Stadum, So it could do that. The next iteration was two lines, with Lynnwood-272nd full time, Lynnwood-Redmond peak, and Northgate-Redmond off-peak. Then it decided it needed more off-peak capacity north of Northgate and extended all trains to Lynnwood, which is the current plan.

        With Everett Link, the East Link trains could conceivably terminate at Lynnwood, 164th, 128th, or Everett Station. ST chose 128th, which may be a little ambitious. But if the termination is moved to 164th or Lynnwood, it won’t make much difference except to those who live in the in-between area. And I’m hoping that at the end of the day every line will be 10-minute minimum, so they won’t have to wait that long for a train even if there’s only one line there.

      5. Ross, you say that Northgate will be one of the three dropoff points, and that’s what I advocated. Can ten minute headways on East and South Link be relied upon? If so, then sure, no overlay is necessary. Five minute headways to Northgate are close enough to four as to be nearly equivalent.

        But will ST run them that often? This is proposed as an amplification if they slip to 12 or even 15 minute headways midday.

        If one is willing to countenance uneven headways north of Northgate, SDOT could fund operation of the overlay — it’s entirely within the city — to make the system interface with Metro better.

      6. Just to be clear, I’m not making any predictions. I’m just pointing out some of the issues that might not be obvious. An outside observer might look at a map and assume that trains turn back at 45th or 145th, since there are big drop-offs in density and there. That won’t happen, because it can’t.

        That makes it tough for ST. I don’t there is any chance the train will turn back at the UW — that makes no sense. Northgate is reasonable, I just think that would be bad. Running the trains half as often north of there would lose significant ridership — I don’t think that is true of trains north of Lynnwood, or south of Federal Way.

        Good point about frequency on the other lines. I hope that they can at the very least run every ten minutes. Ironically, running more often might lead to running less often north of Northgate. If East Link and South Link run every 8 minutes, then it wouldn’t shock me if the trains turn back at Northgate, and 130th to Lynnwood get 8 minute frequency. On the other hand, if those trains are running every 15 minutes (as we fear) then it seems more likely that they would run 7.5 minute trains up to Lynnwood. My guess is that they will run the two lines ever 10 minutes, and hope that they run the train up to Lynnwood every 5.

        Another thing I forget to mention, which is the possibility of turning back at SeaTac. There is likely to be a drop-off in midday ridership south of there. For the same reason I don’t want to see trains turn back at Northgate, I wouldn’t want to see trains turn back at SeaTac. Everything south of there is going to be highly dependent on feeder buses to Link (in the middle of the day). It is slips to 20 minute frequency in Federal Way, then not only is Federal Way screwed, but so is Tacoma.

    2. I doubt it. Sound Transit appears to be completely oblivious to what Metro is doing. They ignored the truncations that have occurred (with buses like the 255) and just cut frequency anyway. The previous Northgate restructure had plenty of buses heading to Link stations (as well as their own 522 truncated there, now running all day long). The low frequency cuts and subsequent announcement (that they will be low for the foreseeable future) came out before this latest proposal.

      It is possible that Metro gave up on the 61 because ST couldn’t run their trains frequently enough. I doubt it. I think most people assume that ST will eventually run the trains more often. It is only a couple years between Northgate and East Link, when frequencies will definitely improve. Even if East Link (and South Link) run at the abysmal 15 minute frequency (most of the day) it would at least mean 7.5 minute frequency for the north end. That isn’t great, but it isn’t terrible either.

      No, I think it was just a simple matter of favoring peak-hour users. Metro didn’t want to upset existing riders that would now have a three seat ride. Not only would those riders have a worse experience, but those riders — a lot of them, anyway — are well to do. They have the time, energy and resources to make a stink. If it takes some bartender in Lake City 50 minutes (and three buses) to go a few miles to work (https://goo.gl/maps/Au8QMwVdNyvQ23zu8) that’s just tough. Buy a car, missy, and you will get there in 15 minutes.

      But if some white collar worker has to make two transfers to get to work — well oh boy, that is a different story. We can’t have that. Never mind that they might get to work faster, or that the buses and train is more frequent than ever. Heaven forbid they be asked to get out of their comfortable seat. They might as drive.

      Every other aspect of the restructure was hammered. Riders in lower Wallingford — including bustling Stone Way — no longer have an express bus to downtown. Parts of Northgate no longer have all-day service — at all. Buses that are obvious feeders to Link, like the 67, are seeing their frequency reduced. But Metro has suddenly found money under the cushions for over 200 new, expensive, very poorly performing express trips.

      1. “Sound Transit appears to be completely oblivious to what Metro is doing.”

        Sound Transit is actling like Link is the big gorilla, and the other agencies can just work around it. ST has abandoned its commitment to ultra-frequent 10-minute service, and it has not yet articulated a philosophy or criteria to replace it. The purpose of 10-minute minimum service is to make it easy to walk to a station anytime and not wait long for a train, and to enable good multi-seat rides with short transfers. That’s what makes subways so successful in cities that have comprehensive subways, and allows the car ownership rate to go below 50%. ST understood this for years: it kept a 10-minute minimum from 2009 through 2019, which is impressive compared to other American light rails and BART. But now it seems to have forgotten it. It seems like ST is just throwing dice now. A die with “30” on two sides, “20” on one side, “15” on two sides, and “10” on one side.

  6. Since I don’t listen to podcasts I guess I’ll miss this . Why not do an article on the blog? I’ve always thought that doing a podcast is a cheap and easy way to communicate, but it makes me use up a lot of time when I read faster than folks talk.

    1. I’m not a fan of podcasts either. I rarely listen to them. This was an exception, but even then I only listened to the first part (the thoughts about the Northgate restructure).

      To me podcasts are just an easy way for the authors to voice an opinion. They can talk about anything and not worry about the quality of the writing. In other words, it is may be slower for us, but it is a lot faster for them. The main idea is it is an open thread — you can talk about anything transit related.

      A handful of people probably do listen to it though — ironically some may listen do it while driving.

      1. Is it a given that they are open thread? This one is explicitly not marked as such. I vaguely remembers others were, so perhaps it is an oversight in this case?

      1. Would be better if Martin and Frank could get together with Dave Ross and for one day a week, turn his show into an STB podcast with performance enhancement commercials. Lord knows transit needs it.

        Like seems to be happening on blog-time already, for transit’s own good, it should be a forum open to people who’s only use for transit is as a target, so people like me can use THEM for target practice.

        Like accusing them of hating my car because their cars are jealous that THEY’ve got to be stuck-with-a-stake while my baby is resting and I’m Steel -Wheel Rollin!

        Will also be worth the whole thing to have Dave straighten out Alex Tsimerman that he can’t give a certain ST CEO the Hitler salute because it was Mussolini who got the trains running on time.

        Wish Joe Biden would mention us a little more often though, because it’d be a howl to hear the the DU-che’s contemporary DC understudy make that claim for Amtrak, Sounder, and Link. Tacoma too. If you wanna be anybody nowadays, you’ve got to be lied about where the world’s most serious journalists can critique it.

        Reason I’m putting this on KIRO, not NPR.

        Mark Dublin

    2. I have an idea. Instead of a once a week podcast, how about a once a month on-location video podcast, where you go out and visit places like future Link stations. Show viewers around, explain stuff, etc.

      1. The ST instragram feed has Field Trip Fridays which provide cool updates, usually of the active construction sites.

    3. I was skeptical of the podcast at first, but the conversational style allows many details to emerge that don’t make it into articles. These details are Frank’s and Martin’s opinions, and those of us who follow STB want to hear their in-depth opinions. If you don’t listen to the podcasts you’ll miss out on those. I tried making a detailed written summary of one podcast as a pilot but it took three hours to write.

  7. Martin and Frank, do you share my sense that the reason it’s so hard to get an answer from Sound Transit as an agency is how many of its political and administrative figures are occupied with planning their earliest possible retirement?

    A routine phone call to ST is heart-breaking. The invariably young people who answer the phone are doing the best they can, but the people who know the answers you- and they- are looking for are unavailably working from home. With all home’s distractions.


    Four years later, I spent my first few months in Seattle before moving to Marblemount, for my first stay in the Northwest. When I got here, not only were the lights still on but the original Madrona trolley-wire was still switched on.

    And in addition to Brill, Pullman gave us a roomy, powerful coach. Too bad we didn’t refurbish them and skip the 40′ Flyers.

    But here’s the REAL difference between Wallingford then and now. For about three decades after Boeing “de-Busted”, a factory worker could own a house there. Same with Ballard.

    And for ST’s whole service area present and projected, and everyplace else called The USA, nothing including transit will ever start to work again until we the people of this country get the politics together to restore that condition.

    Only cure for the pyrotechnic horrors AKA Oregon and California is a wage scale that’ll let the average person buy a home someplace the Creator did not specifically design to catch fire since the beginning of time. Which geologically brings us to Mt. Rainier.


    Which was conceived and under construction through the Civil War that could right now be verging on either a re-match or Round Two, whichever online referee you believe. Leading to my main Transit-ory Point.

    Google Map “Tacoma Washington” and zero in on Tacoma Dome Station. Focus on a little grey pencil line straight past Freighthouse, which represents tracks. One of them quickly turns south and starts to parallel Highway 7.

    Stay with it past Lake Kapowsin and into the town of Elbe, where there are trains in addition to a restaurant that used to be one. Track seems to end right at the mountain’s own Park. Could really take the load off a lot of both roads and buses- though Tacoma Dome might need a few more stories on its garage.

    And trust me. Whether the Route 61 is trolley-wired or just charged by those new overhead sockets, it’ll signal-pre-empt a lot of lights, run a lot of painted lanes, and go past a lot of side-streets with planter-boxes, tables, and awnings.

    Like I saw the beginnings of in Columbia City last Saturday.

    Mark Dublin

  8. Really too bad how complicated its gotten to send links to The Olympian Newspaper, because this afternoon featured a wreck on I-5 south of the Capitol that personifies everything I hate about road transportation in this country.

    A motorist who if he had a driver’s license didn’t deserve it, crashed into the center median, which caused another car to crash into him. And as the culprit went swerving away from the scene, he caused the driver of a giant semi truck to make another truck jack-knife, causing a tinkling cascade of little car crashes.

    Delays? Hope nobody’s billing clients for their time. Economy’s bad enough as it is. Oh, right, and it was raining too. Eee-nough. For our country’s interstate highway system, trucks should long since have had their own road, let alone lanes.

    Shared by intercity bus drivers? I’d like to hear from both sets of drivers if they think they’d be in each others way or not. I can see bus company risk management turn a little pale. Better answer is to give highway buses THEIR own set of lanes too.

    Our lack of internal borders, I’ve always considered one of our country’s greatest strengths. But word to ICE: since Havre Montana was still in the United States when last I looked, my ID should be of no interest to you. You do your nation no service by pretending so much of it a foreign country.

    And first official act I’d like to see from a changed Administration? Give the department of Immigration and Customs Enforcement back its founding motto:

    “A Nation of Immigrants.” Could set a model for the facts that so many other Federal stipulations so badly need to once again fit.

    Mark Dublin

  9. Regarding Wallingford: I recently lived for a year near 45th and Stone, and it was a pretty good location. Very walkable (QFC and lots of restaurants), and good transit. The transit will be much better once U District station opens, and you can take the 44 to Link more quickly. Taking the 44 to UW Station was always a bit of a schlep, and it a a very bumpy ride to Ballard on the 44 as well. Walking down to 40th and Stone gets you a good express bus (26X) to downtown and Sodo (via 131/132, which the 26X becomes). While I understand the hate for the 62 from where I live now (though pre-covid I still used it weekly), I feel like it’s good for Wallingford. It gets you to Fremont very quickly, and SLU is just a but farther via Dexter.

    I do agree that the 62 should be streamlined to use faster roads and not meander through residential areas. I’ve taken it plenty of times and there are usually only a few passengers getting on between 45th and 65th via Tangletown. It should probably just take Green Lake Way, though it would need bus priority on 50th/Green Lake/Stone Way intersection that always seems to take 5 minutes to get through. Though killing all the Wallingford stops by going straight to Green Lake Way from Stone Way would eliminate the advantage for living farther east on 45th. However, it looks like taking the old streetcar route on Meridian-55th/56th-Latona would save half a mile and still hit Wallingford and Tangletown.

    1. I don’t think there is any hate for the 62. I think it is universally liked. If anything, folks on this blog want more buses like that — which is what the 61 is. I think the only issue is with the section between 45th and 65th — it should be faster — exactly what you wrote.

      I don’t think going along Green Lake would work. You would lose a lot of riders, and not be much faster. I think there a couple reasonable ideas:

      1) The original Metro alignment. I think this is ideal. You lose some riders close to Green Lake, but you gain them back on 56th as well as Latona. Coverage would actually be better — fewer people would have a long walk to a frequent bus — while it would run faster.

      2) Using 65th. This would be much faster, and keep many of the existing riders. It would be just about as fast as Metro’s alignment: https://goo.gl/maps/bkYoesM6hi1YxazWA versus https://goo.gl/maps/6JzRKGdqLVQCwZeW6. It is the detour up Ravenna and down and around that costs the most time. Metro’s original alignment is still better, but if they can’t do that, they should explore running on 65th all the way to Woodlawn.

    2. The 62 filled a crosstown hole on 65th, and connected Fremont and Roosevelt for the first time, and by extension, SLU and Roosevelt. However, its slow and meandering middle is a drag on longer trips that cross it.

      1. The 63 (I think) was also connecting SLU and Roosevelt, at least a couple of summers ago when I took it once or twice, though it’s suspended now. And doesn’t the 64 also stop by there for rush hour? Again, assuming full schedule, not COVID schedule.

  10. Two thoughts:

    1) I fully support a Mt. Rainier bus service. Should start ASARP – As Soon As Reasonably Possible where you take the Sounder down to Tacoma, then transfer to a coach to go see Mt. Rainier via the Henry Jackson Visitor Center. There’s a midday trip back down and then another that leaves in the late afternoon.

    2) Have a donors only zoom call for episode 100, eh? Should work. Thanks!

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