Why the Chicago L’s Evanston Express line isn’t really an express. (Car Free Keith)
Why the Washington and Oregon coast has no large cities. (Geography by Geoff)
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59 Replies to “Sunday Movie: Evanston Express & Empty Northwest Coast”
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A few points have bothered me about the south-end bus route restructures:
(1) ST Express 578’s tail to Auburn Station, Sumner Station, and Puyallup Station uses a lot of service hours, for not a lot of passengers.
(2) Federal Way to Auburn has long had a weird overlap of two routes, with KC Metro 181 serving Weyerhaeuser and the Supermall, among other local stops, on the way between the stations.
If ST is thinking of euthanizing the 578 tail, I could actually go for that, if Metro 181 is bumped up to 20-minute off-peak headway and 16-minute peak headway. It is planned as a future RapidRide, and is the best east-west connector for the near-future Federal Way light rail terminus.
Pierce Transit 402 (South Hill, Puyallup, etc to Federal Way) ought to also get a frequency bump to at least half-hourly all day, in expectation of the new ridership the new station will induce.
These two investments together seem far more useful than an express between Auburn and Puyallup Stations.
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(3) Routes connecting every 15 minutes to a light rail line that comes every 10 minutes unnecessarily discourages new ridership patterns. A bus every 15 minutes means, at best, that one in three riders departing the 1 Line will see that bus waiting for them. If the bus’s headway is increased to 20 minutes, then minimally-careful scheduling will have a bus waiting for every other 1-Line departee.
I will repeat my suggestion that Metro route 168 (Kent Station to Maple Valley) be extended to Kent-Des-Moines Station, and bumped up to 20-minute headway, while proposed route 164 (Kent-DesMoines to Kent Station to Green River College) be bumped up to merely 20-minute headway instead of 15-minute headway. Then, the two routes could be inter-timed to create 10-minutes headway between the two Kent stations.
All that said, peak headway ought to be 16 minutes on all these Metro routes.
ST doesn’t release stop data. But the old service report from 2020 had stop data for the 578. Here were the boardings and alightings of a northbound 578:
Puyallup Station: 100 — 0
Sumner Station: 59 — 26
Auburn Station: 205 — 43
Federal Way Transit Center: 523 — 98
So it was mostly used by Federal Way riders. Federal Way is basically the midpoint in terms of service.
But I can’t imagine ST keeping the 577. It is one thing to run a bus like the 590, which stops at Federal Way along the way. It is quite another to run a bus like the 577, which is an exact duplicate of Link *and* that bus. With the 578 it is similar. Yes, riders from Auburn, Sumner and Puyallup appreciate that one-seat ride to Seattle. But that is a lot of service to Seattle for not that many riders. My guess is they truncate that bus at Federal Way.
At the same time, it would be nice to connect the Sounder corridor with bus service when Sounder isn’t running. The only station that isn’t worth serving is Tukwila. Ideally that would mean a Tacoma/Puyallup/Sumner/Auburn/Kent/Seattle express. The combination is a problem though. It is basically a reverse branch (with Auburn as the branch point). You have buses coming from Seattle (via Kent) and then potentially extending south. You have buses from Federal Way potentially extending south. You don’t want to run both because that means doubling up service on an area that doesn’t get much ridership. There are a number of combinations. For example you could run that “Sounder-bus” every half hour along with a bus from Bonney Lake and Auburn to Federal Way every half hour. Or you could just run a bus from Auburn/Kent/Seattle (which would likely get the most riders) and a bus from Tacoma/Puyallup/Sumner/Auburn/Federal Way (so that riders in Puyallup and Sumner aren’t isolated.
In any event, there would be no reason to send any of these buses to downtown during peak. During peak you would have Sounder for that, which means you would want to run a bus to Federal Way and that’s about it (so that riders can get to SeaTac, etc.).
Pierce Transit 402 (South Hill, Puyallup, etc to Federal Way) ought to also get a frequency bump to at least half-hourly all day, in expectation of the new ridership the new station will induce.
Pierce Transit doesn’t have the money and if they did they would increase service on other routes first.
I like the idea of a Puyallup->Sumner->Auburn->Kent->Seattle bus. The 181 is already half hourly and seems fast enough to be acceptable for Auburn-Federal Way traffic. I don’t think Sumner and Puyallup need a one seat ride to Federal Way, just Seattle, so going through Kent is fine.
I guess one question worth asking is whether such a bus should stop at South Renton Park and Ride. The upside is additional connections and more frequent Renton to Seattle bus service (when combined with the 101). The downside is 8 minutes per trip of extra time waiting at stoplights and driving through bus loops.
I would skip Renton just like I would skip Tukwila. It just isn’t worth it. Renton already has an express to downtown. So you would basically be adding an express for trips between Auburn, Kent and Renton and the local service is good enough for that. It is worth noting that there is a general increase in potential ridership as you get north. This means that fewer people suffer from each “detour”. Someone in Puyallup or Sumner would rather have an express to Downtown Seattle. Sorry, but there are a lot more people in Auburn who would love an express. There are also more people in Kent that would appreciate an express than in Auburn.
No need for Renton. The Auburn-Bellevue bus would stop in Renton, along with the I Line. That is sufficient service for anyone trying to get to Renton.
As for Seattle, as already mentioned, they have the 101, which should see higher frequency. Also improvements to SR-900 to eliminate the 5-10 minute traffic signal delay after the exit from I-5, as well as new pavement along that highway so buses can move faster and smoother. And have the Fairwood 102 skip all stops in Skyway to make it faster. No one is going from Skyway to Fairwood.
SR-900 improvements are set to start in a few years and WSDOT has ignored transit. They’re planning a roundabout which won’t help cars or buses alike. It’s a highly congested intersection. All we need is one bus lane there and only in one direction heading east.
Tukwila has the 150, which works quite well outside of Sounder hours… That is when the drivers actually show up on time. I don’t know why the operators are not getting in trouble for regularly showing up 10-15 mins late on the 101/102/150. It’s not a traffic problem. The same operators do this and I’ve learned their faces by now. The buses behind them usually run on time.
Lastly, some people want a one seat ride. Let them have it. It balances the load anyways and keeps the trains less crowded. As long as there is ridership, we can keep the extra buses unless service hours are becoming a problem.
On balance, I do think skipping Renton is best, but it is at least worth a discussion. When the 566 is running, the case is clear, the question is, what are the alternatives when it isn’t? To go to Bellevue, I think you just take this express bus all the way to downtown Seattle and ride the 2 line. It’s a bit out of the way, but it’s at least fast moving and the 2 line is at least frequent and separated from traffic. The only time skipping Renton becomes very awkward is when the destination is Renton itself. The 160 exists, but riding it all the way from Auburn takes an hour, and RapidRide I probably won’t be that much faster.
But, anyone with a car is just going to drive to Renton, while people without one would most likely need a feeder bus to access an express. If this feeder bus is the 160, a 3-seat ride (160-express-F) doesn’t seem any quicker than just slogging it all the way on the 160 by the time you add in all the transfer overhead. Another perspective is that accessing an express requires either a car or a lot of bus overhead, so it’s generally not worth doing unless you’re going a really long distance on it, meaning Seattle, not Renton, as the destination.
“Pierce Transit 402 (South Hill, Puyallup, etc to Federal Way) ought to also get a frequency bump to at least half-hourly all day, in expectation of the new ridership the new station will induce.”
The poorest transit system in the region shouldn’t be going out of it’s way to serve the richest county in the region. Quite the opposite.
If I’m in Kent or Auburn, and I want to get to increasingly the most livable, diverse, fun, and affordable city in the region, compared to the 20-30 minutes driving, it takes well over an hour, and any time off peak, closer to 2, unless the Sounder is running. That’s the sound of Metro failing it’s citizens.
How is Pierce County the “richest”?
King County is the richest. It should be running buses into from Federal Way, Auburn and Kent into Tacoma to serve it’s citizen’s need to access Tacoma. Pierce shouldn’t be picking up the tap to serve Federal Way. It’s far too poor to even serve it’s densest neighborhoods well.
@Cam Solomon, you have a point, given that the routes from Federal Way to Tacoma and Puyallup both spend ~40-50% of their time and distance in King County. (Yes, I measured to Tacoma Dome Station and Puyallup Station; Pierce Transit sensibly continues the actual routes farther but that shouldn’t impact this statement.)
So, I agree; King County Metro should defray at least 50% of the cost of those routes. If nothing else, South Federal Way deserves transit service for itself. Hopefully this will make the buses more frequent.
Does Pierce Transit publish ridership data? The 402 looks like it would be a strong route regardless of Link.
Nevermind, I found this
https://piercetransit.org/2024-local-bus-performance-and-ridership-report-2/
On balance, I do think skipping Renton is best, but it is at least worth a discussion.
OK, here goes. Renton has the 101, an express express to Downtown Seattle that runs every fifteen minutes. From Renton Transit Center (which is in the heart of Renton) to downtown takes about ten minutes longer by bus than by car. The driving route is the same as the bus route — the only difference is that drivers don’t pick up people along the way.
Kent doesn’t have an express like that. It has the 150. The 150 takes about an hour to get downtown while driving takes about a half hour. That is because the path of the bus is unlike the path taken by drivers. The 150 doesn’t use the freeway until it has made a dozen turns serving various parts of northern Kent and Tukwila. This is worthwhile but it changes the nature of the route. The 150 is an express, but it is an express from northern Tukwila, not Kent.
Thus there is a frequent express from Tukwila and Renton but not from Kent. I realize this is a judgement call but saving a half hour versus saving ten minutes makes all the difference in the world given the frequencies of the buses. An express from Kent, running every half hour, would always be faster than the Metro bus — it would always be worth waiting for. You may as well ignore the 150 if you are close to the Kent Station and headed downtown. That would not be the case in Renton. The savings from the ST express bus are not that big.
Then there are the drawbacks. It costs extra money to include Renton with the ST route. It also means that riders from Kent (and Auburn, Sumner and Puyallup) get delayed. You’ve muddied everything. You have an express from Kent that is suddenly not *that* much faster than the 150. All so that you can add an express from Renton that is not *that* much faster than the 101. That is just bad policy when it comes to running an express — especially one that competes with buses running twice as often.
To be fair, you’ve made it easier to get to Renton from Kent, Auburn, Puyallup and Sumner. But some of these trips already have express buses. The 566 runs between Auburn, Kent and Renton and it doesn’t pick up that many riders. Only a handful of riders would be trying to get from Puyallup and Sumner to Renton — they can transfer. I realize the 566 doesn’t run that often but that is because it never got that many riders (and most of those riders were headed to Bellevue). There just aren’t that many riders heading to Renton to justify a detour. In contrast there are a lot of people headed to Seattle from Kent. They just have to time their trip on Sounder or slog their way there.
Kent is one of the biggest holes in our express regional transit network. When Sounder is running, you can get from Kent to Seattle very quickly. When Sounder isn’t running, riders in Kent are out of luck. It takes longer to get from Kent to downtown than it does from Auburn to downtown. Think about that for a second. Kent has a bigger, more centralized downtown area. It is closer to Seattle. Yet it takes longer (by transit) to get there. This is not a flaw with the 150 — the 150 is a very good route — it is a flaw with the express buses. Kent should have an express to downtown and you might as well include Auburn (and maybe even Sumner and Puyallup). But it shouldn’t stop in Renton.
@John — This page we created lists the data (that we know about) from local agencies: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YNBfAhcJ2mgw7FlrebaSk67ziUmNM8UZH9dTVl-2a7w/edit?tab=t.0
On that page it shows the main data page for Pierce Transit (https://piercetransit.org/public-documents/). The document you referenced is on there (at the bottom). The Transit Development Plans also have route data for previous years (in case you want to look back at what the numbers were before the pandemic). It appears as though they have split that ridership information into the the one you referenced.
In the longer term, what about the connection to Bellevue via Stride? That seems like the most valuable part of stopping in Renton.
A Kent-Seattle express would likely be taking 167-405-5, meaning it would be a few minutes (3-4?) to detour to South Renton
@John D., 5 minutes extra in each direction in current traffic, according to Google Maps. That matters.
I thought about that. But, it comes down to how much time you actually save by taking 405 vs. going through downtown Seattle. Either way, you still have to transfer. But, the Seattle route it’s bus->train (every 10 minutes) while the Renton route, is bus->bus (every 15 minutes). Driving from Kent to Bellevue without traffic, Google shows I-5 to I-90 taking only 5 minutes longer than taking 405. The overhead of a detour to Renton, alone, is at least 5 minutes.
There is also another argument against a Renton detour I just thought of. Not having it gives the bus driver route flexibility between Kent and Seattle. That is, depending on traffic, the bus could choose to take SR-516 to I-5, rather than take 405. With Renton, this bypass option is gone, and if 167 approaching 405 is backed up, the bus has no choice but to just sit in traffic.
Even outside of peak hours, traffic in this area is unpredictable enough that route flexibility could potentially save passengers a lot of time on some very bad traffic days.
It is hard to see how King County would subsidize service in Pierce County just because Pierce Transit is more underfunded than Metro transit. At the end of the day it comes down to what each agency has in terms of funds and what their constituents want. My guess is Pierce Transit runs those routes to promote transit to Downtown Tacoma. It certainly would make sense from a business perspective. It is also possible that Metro is playing a cold-blooded high-stakes game of chicken. Maybe they would serve those areas (if Pierce County didn’t run those routes) but since PT is, they don’t bother.
Then there is logistics. In the border between King and Snohomish County, the buses typically don’t go very far into the other county. But that is because both counties have nearby layover locations. Metro buses go as far as Mountlake Terrace Transit Center. This is less than half a mile from the border. It is a detour for the 331 but not a huge one. It adds significant value to connect to Link (and other buses) there. It is also a layover location. The 333 lays over there, and there is no alternative (closer to the border). In both of these cases you might as well serve folks from Snohomish County along the way. Community Transit buses largely do the same (Aurora Village is only a few blocks across the border). There are exceptions but those are largely based on the convenience for CT riders — the benefit for riders within King County is minimal.
With Pierce Transit it is different. But that may be due to the lack of layover locations close to the border. Metro runs buses south of Federal Way Transit Center but only one bus lays over south of there. That is the 181, which lays over by Twin Lakes Park and Ride. This wouldn’t make sense for any of the buses coming from Pierce County. I am surprised that no buses layover at South Federal Way Park and Ride. But since none do this creates an awkward situation. King County is quite happy for the PT buses to serve Federal Way Park and Ride. But Pierce County may be tired of it. But what can they do? The 500 has to stop somewhere. They can ask King County to provide comfort stations in South Federal Way but there is no incentive for them to do so.
I’m not saying that is happening. It is quite likely that agencies aren’t that King County isn’t that cold blooded and Pierce isn’t that demanding. It is more likely that this is just an issue that largely flies under the radar for both agencies. Or maybe King County does give Pierce a little extra money for service so much of King. Maybe Pierce Transit feels like it is necessary to spend a little extra providing more people (including those in King Count) a connection to Downtown Tacoma.
From what I can tell, Federal Way Link really doesn’t change things. Even if Metro ran these buses it isn’t likely they would increase frequency on them. For folks who ride those buses, Link really doesn’t matter that much. Some of the trips are better but the only dramatically better trip is to the airport. If you are headed to Highline College it saves you plenty of time (over the RapidRide A Line) but you probably have to walk farther. If you are headed downtown the express bus is usually faster. Obviously it adds value but my guess is most riders on those buses are heading the other direction (towards Downtown Tacoma) and Link is irrelevant.
I’m not sure it’s worth it but it is a significant detour to go Kent-Bellevue via Seattle-Line 2 versus Renton-Stride
Rough time estimates for Seattle-Line 2: 50-79 minutes
– Kent to CID (via SODO): 30-45 minutes
– Transfer: 2-12 minutes
– CID to Bellevue: 18-22 minutes
Rough time estimates for Renton-Stride: 26-61 minutes
– Kent to Renton: 10-15 minutes
– Transfer: 1-16 minutes
– Renton to Bellevue: 15-30 minutes
I think it depends on the level of service on the corridor as well. If a 167 Sounder shadow is too infrequent, then a connection at Renton adds nothing except extra travel time because it’s too difficult to travel back the other way. If it’s frequent enough then a connection to Stride might be valuable and could potentially replace the 566.
Even 50-79 minutes is still an improvement over the status quo where you have to transfer between the 560 and 160, with the 560 running every 30-60 minutes.
In the longer term, what about the connection to Bellevue via Stride? That seems like the most valuable part of stopping in Renton.
If there really is a lot of demand for Kent/Auburn to Renton/Bellevue then just run the 566 more often. That gives those riders a one-seat ride to Downtown Bellevue. I just don’t think the bus would pick up enough riders to justify the detour, especially since it would only run outside of rush hour (when Sounder isn’t running). From Renton it would compete with the 101 to downtown. From Kent to Renton it would compete with the 153. In both cases the express is faster (by about ten minutes) but that is nothing like the Kent to downtown trips. The only competition with Kent is the 150, and it saves about a half hour. If we didn’t already have an all-day express from Auburn it would similar if not worse.
Just to put some numbers with this, consider the 566 from when it ran more often (and picked up a lot more riders). Here is the report from 2019 (https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/documents/2020-service-implementation-plan.pdf#page=152). At the time we also had the 567 (which ran express from Kent to Bellevue during peak). Ridership on the 566 was heavily peak-oriented. Very few people boarded in the middle of the day, when it ran hourly. Ridership goes up when you run a bus more often but ridership *on a particular bus* typically goes down. Thus instead of the less than ten riders that board in the middle of the day you would have fewer if it ran more often. About half the riders were from Renton. The other half will now be asked to transfer (further depressing ridership). I just don’t see the detour to Renton being worth it.
There is also another argument against a Renton detour I just thought of. Not having it gives the bus driver route flexibility between Kent and Seattle.
Yes, exactly. It is the only part of the route like that. If you are going from Sumner to Kent you are going to go by Auburn. But if you are going from Kent to Seattle, it is quite possible you avoid Renton entirely. As of this writing, Google is showing me three different options, the fastest of which is to take Kent/Des Moines road to I-5. But I’m sure things change, especially for a bus. It would be different if the HOT lanes served Renton. But they don’t. They bypass Renton on their way towards Bellevue, which is why the 567 made sense (when more riders used it). But a bus heading to Renton from the south has to leave the HOT lanes and then there is no right-of-way improvements until you get past Grady (and then they are intermittent). Even though the bus would largely avoid rush hour, it still might encounter periodic congestion along the way. Having the ability to avoid it would make the bus faster a lot more consistent.
While I don’t think the detour is worth it I will say it makes more sense than detouring to Tukwila Station (even though doing the later would make for a better “Sounder Bus”).
A Kent-Seattle express should not stop in Renton. The whole point is to get substantially faster than the 1-hour 150 or 45-minute 162. It can’t do that stopping in Renton. There are other Kent-Renton expresses and locals.
PT 402, 500, and 501 serve the needs of Pierce County taxpayers. They need to get to jobs, shopping, and regional transfers in the larger cities of Federal Way and Auburn. It has nothing to do with which county is richer on average. For the same reason, Swift Blue goes to Aurora Village, VT 106 goes to downtown Bothell and UW Bothell, and a Swift Green extension will.
The long King County segment on the 500 is probably because there was little south of Federal Way TC until the 2000s, so there was little for Metro to go to. All agencies go to the transit center near the border regardless of which side it’s on or whether it’s right on the border or a bit inland. That’s because transit routes work best when they have a destination anchor at both ends, not when they just peter out at the low-density border. The 500 is primarily because Pierce residents need it to reach Federal Way TC and shopping. It goes through residential King County because it has to.
It makes little cost difference whether PT or Metro serves that stub between Federal Way TC and the county border. The issue is that transfers in the middle of nowhere are bad for passengers. Forcing Metro to go to the border and transfer there is being pedantic and counterproductive. Saying the 402 or 500 primarily benefit “rich” King County and Federal Way are wrong. It’s the residents that need to get to their activities.
there’s some ideas behind a future sr 167 brt with center direct access ramps by wsdot with the future SR-167.
the base idea is to have a bus from puyallup via sumner, auburn, kent to renton. a south extension to tacoma is relatively easy
the north extension is a bit more complicated. some talked about going to rainier beach or tibs. other ideas are going to seattle or bellevue.
CTA Purple Line is just a limited stop subway. The real Evanston Express is Metra Union Pacific / North Line.
The video is intended for Chicago transit riders so it doesn’t explain everything. It does not explain that the Purple line only goes to Downtown Chicago during peak periods (as opposed to all day); at other times riders must ride a few stops to Howard Street then transfer to the Red Line and then endure all of the 19 station stops to Downtown. Metra trains are not as frequent but they go to and from Downtown Chicago all day and well into the evening and it’s just 6 stops. It’s 23 stops from the main Evanston station at Davis Street using the L.
There are no big, free and ride garages either. There are only a handful of small pay lots.
Every city is different. But the low Purple Line usage to me is a lesson of how less attractive a service gets if there are too many stops. This problem really will be clear here with Link’s 21 planned stops to Westlake from Tacoma Dome, or 20-21 planned stops from ID to Downtown Everett. In 2025, Link riders don’t yet have the extreme multi-stop frustration.
Another lesson is the power of all-day two-way commuter rail service. Sounder doesn’t offer this level of service by a long shot.
Another lesson is about train carrying capacity. The Loop aerial track carries three or four lines depending on the time of day.
Another lesson is how to position four tracks with two center platforms for same -direction cross-platform transfers. ST is literally building four parallel tracks in SODO but each track will configured to tun in an opposite direction from the next one over; this prevents ST from using th four-track SODO segment for any operational advantage or flexibility. Note in the video that CTA was able to redirect the tracks that the Purple Line uses before entering Downtown Chicago just with operational changes — and ST is not designing for this flexibility with Link and not designing SIDO station for easy transfers.
It’s good to see what issues are faced by different systems. There are lessons to be had for Link here.
Did I miss any?
PS. The color “purple” also represents Northwestern University in Evanston.
“… free park and ride…”
But the low Purple Line usage to me is a lesson of how less attractive a service gets if there are too many stops.
Yeah, nobody uses the Paris Metro. But BART is hugely popular. Oh wait…
Longer trips are taken less often. Commuter rail (no matter how good) is less popular than local transit (no matter how bad). Japan has the best high speed rail system in the world. It sets records in terms of ridership. Yet it is tiny compared to metro ridership.
You can dissect various routes and explain why they aren’t popular but that typically comes down to land use or the network. Adding stations in areas that have very few people is not a good value. Express service is nice, but it is not nearly as important as having lots of stops in the middle of the city. The biggest weakness within Link is not that there are too many stations, it is that there are too few.
Out of curiosity, have you ridden the Purple line between Evanston and Downtown Chicago, Ross?
I’ve done it a few dozen times — mostly when it wasn’t running south of Howard Street. It seems to take forever!
have you ridden the Purple line between Evanston and Downtown Chicago, Ross?
No.
I’ve done it a few dozen times — mostly when it wasn’t running south of Howard Street. It seems to take forever!
So what? It isn’t a short distance. If you take a subway train a long distance it will take a while. But at every stop there are people getting on and off. That is the nature of a properly designed line. Maybe if there was a commuter rail line … oh wait, there is.
At one time, the Chicago, North Shore and Milwaukee operated “Electeoliners” on those express tracks at 90 mph, made some intermediate stops, and could still get between the two metropolitan areas at speeds competitive with mainline railroads. They operated in city streets over the streetcar lines in Milwaukee and on the loop in Chicago. They were very much like light rail of today, if only light rail could operate at decent speeds.
Today, the CTA operates a small section of the old 90 mph main line as the yellow line, but their L trains can only go 55 mph.
“Yeah, nobody uses the Paris Metro. But BART is hugely popular. ”
What does that mean?
What does that have to do with riding a train at least 20 stops? Most trips on either system are less than 20 stops from the city core (although Paris’ core is spread out across the city because much of the city being historic and height-limited) — and Paris has the “express” RER service (which I’ve once ridden) as an option.
There are some destination to reach via Purple/ Red lines in Chicago’s northside but Downtown Chicago is the biggest draw by far.
“Yeah, nobody uses the Paris Metro. But BART is hugely popular. ”
What does that mean?
That was obviously snark (you removed the “Oh wait…” part). Paris Metro is way more popular than BART. The point being that you want your stations close together, not far apart. You are much better off delaying the riders that have to wait through a bunch of stops than you are skipping areas of the city that should have a metro. Of course it would be ideal if you double tracked everything but at the end of the day express riders are vastly outnumbered by those going a short distance.
Not only that, but if you *only* run express (like BART) you end up with crap. You end up with a system that is extremely fast for a handful of trips but sucks for the vast majority of riders. A real metro — with stops fairly close together — is far more important than express trains or regional/commuter rail. Build that first and then worry about everything else. Most of the time the best thing to do is just complement the metro with express buses and commuter/regional rail instead of trying to build some sort of hybrid mess.
Paris has the “express” RER service (which I’ve once ridden) as an option.
Yes, and Chicago has Metra (which I’ve ridden as well).
So I’ve been off the grid and away from the internet for the better part of a week.
Has nothing happened yet on Full ELE testing? Or is WSDOT still refusing to agree to let ST turn on the power across the floating bridge?
The delays to Full ELE seem endless. Thank gawd FWLE is going first. At least we get one more Link opening this year.
No new testing that I’ve heard, but ST said it would start around now. Sam took a photo of construction work on the bridge that made us wonder if the opening date might be pushed back for that. The photo is in the July 2 open thread.
The big news is Federal Way might open this year, and there’s no 6-month spacing constraint between the Federal Way and Crosslake openings. So if Federal Way opens in December, that would free up April for Crosslake if it needs that long (current target still January 31). ST also said it might allow passengers between Westlake-Intl Dist in its full 2 Line testing.
I haven’t hear anything about WSDOT delaying energizing the wire.
> I haven’t hear anything about WSDOT delaying energizing the wire.
Lazarus seems to have forgotten to check what’s public and what’s not before relaying information from their inside sources.
@Mike Orr,
I am fully aware of the new schedule for FWLE opening, and that is very good news indeed. Credit should be given to Sparrman for all the advance work he did to position this extension for an earlier than originally planned opening. Let’s hope Dow doesn’t “Frick” it up.
As per energizing the wire across the floating bridge, it’s way past time that that be done. Additional delays for bureaucratic reasons is pure nonsense. This extension is simply too important for regional transportation to be left sitting idle. Time to get it done.
WSDOT needs to be part of the solution here.
I wouldn’t know whether it’s energized or not; it doesn’t glow purple when it is. I hesitate to take one person’s word it’s WSDOT’s fault, or that energizing is the issue.
Jacobs Engineering says they’ve been selected to do the design work for the West Seattle extension:
https://www.rtands.com/news/jacobs-to-design-light-rail-extension-in-west-seattle/
there is a delay on 1 Line north of U District. The train operator said there was signal issue. The one I rode completely stopped south of Northgate for at least 5 minutes. Several northbound train are 16-20 minutes behind schedule.
515 certainly will have great ridership until it is deleted if this keeps happening.
Resolution to open Federal Way Link “as early as Fall 2025”
https://www.soundtransit.org/st_sharepoint/download/sites/PRDA/ActiveDocuments/Resolution%20R2025-17.pdf
“Due to the high volume of comments focused on Sound Transit Express Service, engagement for light rail changes is occurring in July-August 2025, and engagement for ST Express changes will occur in fall 2025. No changes for ST Express related to Federal Way Link Extension will occur before Fall 2026.”
There you go. The 577 and 578 will continue for another year at least, and I assume all current ST Express routes will too. And the first ST Express restructure proposal will be this fall, which I interpret as September-December.
It’s interesting and heartening that ST received an unexpectedly large number of comments about ST Express. That shows the public is engaged. And while the comments doubtless have several viewpoints that contradict each other, maybe that will get ST to take all the viewpoints more seriously and consider some of the better suggestions.
I never expected that. I knew the ST Express changes would be controversial but I figured some changes were inevitable when it opened (e. g. the 574 would no longer run to SeaTac). As much as I think that ST should retain express service between Federal Way and Seattle, keeping things the same makes for a very wasteful network:
1) The only bus that connects Tacoma and Lakewood riders with Link (in Federal Way) will continue to SeaTac.
2) Buses will run every fifteen minutes between Federal Way and Seattle midday (like they do today). However, one of the buses skips Federal Way, so if you are in Federal Way you only have a bus every half hour to Seattle.
3) Similarly, buses will run every fifteen minutes between Tacoma and Federal Way (like they do today). However, one of the buses skips Federal Way, so if you are in Tacoma and want to get to Link, you only have a bus every half hour.
It seems like the worst of both worlds. The express service to Seattle isn’t getting better and neither is the connection to Link. At a minimum I would have the 594 stop at Federal Way on the way to Seattle. There are direct access ramps to the HOV lanes so the cost is minimal. Then I would time the various buses so that:
1) Buses would run every fifteen minutes from Lakewood/Tacoma to Federal Way.
2) Buses would run every fifteen minutes from Federal Way to Seattle.
This would be a big improvement and yet a minimal change. It is like the 510 stopping at Mountlake Terrace Freeway Station. It makes sense to connect to Link even if you keep going.
The next steps after that are fairly simple but more controversial:
1) Truncate the 574 at Federal Way when Link is running. It is annoying to have to transfer (especially if you have luggage) but at least there would be less waiting.
Do some swapping based on ridership. The 578 does not get that many riders from Auburn, Sumner and Puyallup headed to Seattle (based on pre-pandemic data). A lot more people ride the 594 to Seattle. So change things like so:
2) Truncate the 578 at Federal Way.
3) Run the 594 every fifteen minutes instead of every half hour.
The first change saves money. The second change is revenue neutral. The reason it is revenue neutral is complicated, but here is one way to think about it: The truncated 574 would be running between Lakewood and Federal Way every half hour. The 578 would be running between Puyallup and Federal Way every half hour. Just swap the northern tails and it doesn’t cost a thing. The 578 is truncated while the 574 becomes a 594.
This is a very conservative set of changes. I would probably go farther and make other changes (like the ones we discussed in other comments). If you were to do all this (which isn’t much) I think the big thing that is missing is an express from Kent to Seattle (when Sounder isn’t running). This might as well include Puyallup, Sumner and Auburn (since they would be losing their one-seat ride to downtown).
Waiting a full year is honestly a bit bizarre, especially given they have already asked for and received comments. What are they planning to do during that year?
I’m sold on most of your thoughts, Ross. My only concern is the 594 detour to FW adding more time than you expect. I’m not sure current conditions are going to be the same as post FWLE opening conditions, but I’d like to put a stopwatch on it. Last time I took the 574 through there it was close to 15 minutes. That was during construction detours though.
“Waiting a full year is honestly a bit bizarre, especially given they have already asked for and received comments.”
They’ve only gotten initial scoping comments on what people think it should study, comments on current service, and people’s favorite ideas. There’s no route-specific proposal yet. ST said it received more comments than expected, so it’s taking time to go through them. Next ST will have to merge the results with its own ideas and publish a first proposal. Each proposal cycle takes around three months if I remember. There’s the comments period, outreach, and meeting with individual stakeholders and community groups who request it. Then once it gets the feedback, it has to compile and merge it again. If somebody brings up a legally-protected impact ST didn’t consider (e.g., access by an underprivileged group, access to a disability-service institution), ST would have to reevaluate that.
Then there may be a second or third proposal round, depending on how much studying ST has budgeted for this restructure, and any unexpected impacts or new ideas ST likes in the feedback. Small Metro restructures have just one proposal round, while Metro Link restructures have two or three. Since this is just ST Express routes, I assume it will be simpler than that and it have only one or two proposal rounds.
Then ST will write up the final service change for the ST Board to vote on. There will be another hearing and feedback, and compiling that and submitting it to the board, and then the board votes. After that it takes three months to write the schedules, hire and train drivers, and logistics.
The shortest I’ve seen for all this is six months. With multiple proposal rounds it would take nine or twelve months.
This time there’s a unique issue: the World Cup. ST doesn’t want to make ST Express changes until after it. ST’s plan for the World Cup is to add extra service on Link, the 545, and the 550 as needed. That depends on the 545 and 550 still existing. We’re assuming they’ll be deleted in the restructure, and you can’t add service to a route that doesn’t exist.
There are two desirable times for service changes: March and September, at the same time as Metro, CT, and PT. Traditionally the largest one is in September. March is too early for the World Cup, so the next one would be September.
Because ST already knows it’s targeting September 2026 for the ST Express restructure, it doesn’t have to hurry now, and it may have multiple proposal rounds planned.
I don’t think the detour to Federal Way will be that bad. It isn’t quite as good as Mountlake Terrace (or similar freeway stations) but that is one end of the spectrum. On the other end you have Ash Way, which is good from one direction and really slow to the other. This is probably closest to Lynnwood Station (back when buses stopped at the station and then continued to Northgate). The only major difference between the two are the roundabouts. For a round trip the bus has to go through both of them twice. Unlike 145th NE (close to the Shoreline South Station) it doesn’t connect to a major street. I don’t think there will be a major delay as the bus struggles to get into the roundabout. I guess time will tell.
Either way I think it important to serve the station. The connection is too important and the buses aren’t that frequent. My guess is, given the two options, folks would prefer the bus stop along the way. It would certainly be more popular in Federal Way. They would have fifteen minute express bus service to both Seattle and Tacoma. In Tacoma it is more of a mix. More people ride the 590/594 combination than the 574. But not a lot more. More people ride the 574 than the 594. Thus more riders in Tacoma might prefer the bus skip Federal Way but not a lot more. It seems like the overall benefit is much higher with the bus stopping there.
I think the bizarre part is that it took ST so long to get moving on this. Metro planners did just fine. They already are in the third phase. They had the initial outreach and now two rounds of proposals. But ST planners haven’t come out with a proposal yet. They procrastinated and now it is too late.
I think the ST Express planners are having problems. They handled the East Link planning just fine but now they can’t seem to update their information. We still aren’t sure whether the bus will stop in various places in Issaquah. Likewise, they made no changes at all when the East Link starter line was built, even though everyone assumed they would just truncate the 566 in Downtown Bellevue. Meanwhile, they keep running the 556 years after Link got to the U-District. I understand why you would want to err on the side of the status quo but they just seem to be inactive when it comes to the routing.
“I knew the ST Express changes would be controversial but I figured some changes were inevitable when it opened”
ST is balancing an “efficient” network (maximum truncations) with pushback from politicians and the public, and ST itself may have hesitations about 55-minute travel time to Federal Way and 75-minute to Tacoma Dome without the express buses. It knows there will be pushback, but it may not be sure how loud the city/county politicians will be about it, or whether that will fuel hesitations by boardmembers. Some restructure proposals have been withdrawn due to opposition, others have gone through anyway, and others didn’t generate as much opposition as they would have five or ten years earlier. It doesn’t know what it will be this time until it publishes a proposal and sees what happens.
In January 2016 ST published three post-ST2 planning scenarios for ST Express. All three had maximum truncations at KDM, Lynnwood, and UW. That was the first time ST suggested truncating the 57x and 58x. We covered it at the time. The maps and routes are no longer online. ST received feedback on that and then never said anything further. Later that year, ST3 superceded it. Now it’s getting back to it again.
ST has some tough choices to make about STX. Not only will there be debate about whether to push riders to Link or to have parallel service, there will also be the need to think about a post-Stride world. Finally, the 509 project opens in 2028 and 167 opens in 2026 and 2029 providing possible STX corridors.
They should have thought about these things sooner. ST is so hellbent on building that they avoid the overdue discussions about what operation they’ll need to offer. They also will want to make FW Link a success so they’ll be pre-disposed to wanting to maximize FW Link boardings.
there will also be the need to think about a post-Stride world
Hard to see that making much difference. I see Stride as simply being another ST express bus. None of the routes will carry as many riders (or run as often) as the 550 did in its heyday. I guess there is a level of permanence surrounding the routes. Once they open it is unlikely ST will rearrange them. Like the 550 before East Link they will be a given with every restructure. So there is that, but it would not surprise me if little changes because of them.
Link is a completely different beast. For example, Federal Way Link makes getting from Federal Way to SeaTac a lot faster. So much so that forcing a transfer is reasonable. In contrast if you force riders to get onto Stride you are just forcing riders from one bus to another. Stride may be a little bit faster (with off-board payment) but ST Express buses often make so few stops that it doesn’t matter much.
Finally, the 509 project opens in 2028 and 167 opens in 2026 and 2029 providing possible STX corridors.
Good point. The 167 changes could make a Tacoma/Puyallup express section (as part of an all-day Sounder) more likely. Likewise I could see a Burien/Federal Way express (using SR 509). Then again, it is quite possible that these projects (which clearly ignored transit) won’t lead to additional express buses at all.
ST is balancing an “efficient” network (maximum truncations) with pushback from politicians and the public, and ST itself may have hesitations about 55-minute travel time to Federal Way and 75-minute to Tacoma Dome without the express buses.
Sure, I have those same concerns. We’ve written about that for quite some time. But there is a difference between balancing these interests and just ignoring them (or in this, procrastinating so long that it is too late, despite the fact that this project was supposed to be done in 2024*). It is pretty easy to come up with a very conservative proposal:
1) Have the 594 stop at Federal Way (along the way).
2) Truncate the 574 at Federal Way when Link is running.
That saves quite a bit of service but it means that every fifteen minutes there is an express from Federal Way to Seattle and an express from Federal Way to Tacoma. The only riders who are hurt are those that would prefer a one-seat ride to SeaTac. They have Link instead (to go along with more frequent service from Tacoma to Federal Way). I would go further (as I explained in my comment) but those changes are also conservative. The vast majority of people would retain their fast one-seat ride to downtown and it would come more often. At the same time they would have more frequent service to Link. It isn’t hard to propose a win/win with this change because Federal Way is well set up for it. Actually serving the station won’t take that long. (In contrast this was never the case for the south end of Link before.)
More to the point this is no different than other truncations. I’m sure a lot of people were disappointed when they were forced to transfer at Northgate instead of riding the 512 right into downtown. I’m sure there will be plenty of people who will be upset about losing their all-day express from Renton to downtown. By their very nature these changes are controversial but ST did them anyway. In this case appear to be stuck and I don’t see any reason for that.
* https://www.seattlepi.com/local/transportation/article/Sound-Transit-bumps-up-timelines-for-next-phases-7948363.php (Federal Way would open 4 years sooner, in 2024).
If ST does thing in similar pace as King County Metro, they would have a draft service plan ready around the time FWLE opens.
With reference to the earlier post on the Chicago, Norgth Shore & Milwaukee. The Electroliners (and some of their conventional equipment DID hit high speeds, but mostly along the Skokie Valley and north of Waukegan. No 90 mph on the stretch from Howard St. to Skokie–they had to even slow to transfer from 3rd rail to trolley. Certainly no fast running on the El’s center tracks inside Chicago. The North Shore entry to Milwaukee was street running, but on the company’s own track–indeed until the 1940s they ran their own local streetcars on the line.
Metro exterior bus displays have a new message: “FARES REQUIRED”.
Welp, I guess I have to get an Orca card now 😔