Here’s a Times article about more street car lines in the future. These conversations should be no big surprise to anyone here, since the city commissioned one study a few years ago.
Anyway this study was done by the UW Urban Planning department and paid for by the Urban League of Metropolitan Seattle. Their study shows that the neighborhoods with streetcars will develop quickly, and create a more permanent and fixed development.
Personally I love the idea of a Capitol Hill-Queen Anne line running along Denny. I worry about building one to West Seattle, however, because that would lower the inertia to build a proper rapid transit line out there.
What do you think?
The 8 is great for Capitol Hill to LQA, but sometimes it runs 20 minutes late. I’m all for it if it’s an improvement, but I’m still not sure how a streetcar is better than a bus. Does it run more frequently or avoid traffic?
So a long time reader and blogger friend M1ek thinks streetcars don’t work because they don’t have their own lane (He’s posted comments on his and my blogs time and time again). But I think that these are corridors that aren’t getting light rail any time soon and won’t be getting it if businesses fight the taking of parking spaces or a lane away. Maybe the folks in Seattle are more enlightened but some in Berkeley are fighting BRT because people think it will take a lane or parking. What do you all think? Keep it bus until you can get light rail in its own lane or upgrade to streetcar sooner?
Streetcars are easier to board people on and off quickly (especially handicap), don’t have the driver-rider interaction, and are easier to get through traffic signals.
All of these will be considerable boons to timeliness, which will increase ridership.
They also add a sense of permanence which drives up dense, transit-oriented development, which increases ridership, and just having tracks that point in a direction let’s people know that ttransit runs there and people are more likely to take it.
So it’ll be faster, and it’ll get more ridership.
Denny? You think? I feel like Denny’s overwhelmed with traffic as it is. The No. 8 bus backs up 2 or 3 deep some days on rush hours. I ride on Denny often, and I think the only real solution there is new, grade-separated capacity, like maybe a monorail. Or else we just extend the existing Monorail up Capitol Hill on Pine street. And route all QA-CH traffic through downtown/belltown.
How about a “northlake” street car running from the non-existent Ballard commuter rail stations, through ya shure itself, onto downtown Freemont and then to the University ending at the same station as the extended SLUT. The Fremont and Ballard business folks would benefit tremendously as the 44 doesn’t connect these two shopping (and now condo filled) hubs. Also think of the crush loads coming from Sounder at Ballard and heading to the UW on game day. Hmmmm
I believe the thinking on the ‘Denny’ line is that it would actually go through the Center and across Harrison on the new Aurora overpass Nickels is pushing for, then down Minor to Olive Way to get up the hill to 15th.
I think the streetcar network is great. Seattle has plenty of wide arterials like Westlake or Pacific where room exists for an exclusive trackway. The Czech streetcars can be coupled into 2-car trains, which puts capacity at the low end of light rail.
Plus, where things are really tight, you can always single track and have trains pass at stations. Limits headway, but if you can take out the 2-way left turn lane and get a raised median, the reliability makes up for it.
Two or three buses is about as much capacity as a single streetcar.
One of the Skoda 10T’s can hold between 131-171 people:
http://www.skoda.cz/darkblue/obrazek.asp?ID=1613
Which is more than two articulated trolley buses at maximum capacity.
“…that would lower the inertia to build a proper rapid transit line out there…” – I love that! We wouldn’t want to lower the inertia!
Perhaps you meant momentum. But what momentum are you sensing to build rapid transit to west seattle?
Well, I think the strongest factors for the “best” place for a streetcar would be Where people work and Where people live. We know where people work: downtown. Now look here at Sightline’s population density map to find where people live.
I propose extending the streetcar up westlake, and toward Greenwood (over Fremont bridge? or maybe its own higher bridge under 99). Extend the other side up to Capital hill, and we get most of the dense areas covered by one system.
Sure I’d much rather have a grade-seperated monorail, but I’ll take what I can get. Westlake is probably wide enough for at least lane seperation.
You could use the parking strip on Westlake, which is actually old trolley ROW, and the existing former rail spur from the Fremont Bridge to SPU. In short, a trolley from the new trolley to SPU could run all the way on existing and unused gradient.
In general, those surprisingly broad streets are where the trolleys used to run. It can be fun to drive the old trolley lines and see what you find there today.