The Seattle City Council has delayed considering streetcars for funding right now, and no money was put into the 2009-2010 budget for streetcars. I guess we’ll have to wait a few more years to see more streetcars.
Proposition One does include a First Hill streetcar, which would likely be completeted pretty quickly.
To be fair to the process, this will go a lot smoother than the eastside streetcar loop in Portland. The support and ability to pay are here in Seattle, they just need to get cracking.
Of course I’m aware of the technical issues involved in Portland’s loop, but it’s really REALLY plagued to a point well-beyond the definition of “plagued”.
Too bad. But this year the focus should really be on getting Prop 1 passed.
The SLUT isn’t exactly a great success on which to build upon. I don’t understand the streetcar madness. Can’t we focus on one new transportation option instead of a dozen? Else we’ll end up like NYC with its competing rail and transit lines. JFK to Grand Central involves three separate transportation lines. It’s madness. Can we please not do that? AirTrain, LIRR, three segregated light rail networks, the MTA buses, and PATH, and I’m sure I’m missing something. So we’ll have Sounder, two segregated Links, two streetcars, four bus agencies, and just to make the retro-futurists happy, the Seattle Center Monorail (which sadly is still the easiest transit option to get from Seattle Center to the downtown corridor).
Besides, I could probably walk to Harborview from Westlake Center faster than the SLUT goes. I’d get a modest workout and save two bucks each way. Why would First Hill be interested?
I don’t get why having multiple modes of transit is a bad thing, especially when the Streetcar is built to tie into the Link/Bus system.
And you may be able to walk to and from, but not everyone can nor do they want to. Some people have jobs where you have to look presentable which means not dripping in sweat.
The SLUT doesn’t go to harborview at all.
And you certainly can’t walk end to end on the streetcar line faster than it goes. I’m a fast walker, and I tried it last night, as we’ve been discussing it. I made it about to Mercer by the time the SLUT was at the end of the line (outbound from Westlake), I think. When it goes up Eastlake that’ll be even more pronounced, as the stops will likely be farther apart.
The reason we’re building more streetcar lines is that we need in-city transportation. You don’t use your car to get to the end of the block, and you don’t use your car to go to Florida (most of the time). Different modes of transportation have different useful distances.
I think you are missing something!
Everyone should stop talking about the SLUT as a way to Fred Hutch from Westlake. That’s possible but not the point. It’s local access to South Lake Union–I’ve personally used it to go from Fred Hutch to UW SLU on a rainy morning, and there are actually a lot of cross-institutions biomedical research.
I do wish the route went up 9th to Convention Place Station (9th and Olive) since that would be closer to Met Park where Children’s, the VA, Group Health, and other organizations have offices, but I understand the reasons to go to Westlake instead.
I think the point he was making is that he could walk from Westlake to Harborview faster than a streetcar could make the run. The difference is that the proposed First Hill line wouldn’t actually go to Westlake – it would connect the two Link stations (at the ID and Broadway stops).
I have walked the current route faster than the SLUT, btw – it depends on time of day and traffic volumes. But that’s really not the point.
The reason McIver gave, which is probably still true, is that a lot of folks who work on First Hill are transit riders, and without a First Hill stop their commutes are made more difficult. The streetcar line gives you the ability to get from the ID stop to Harborview and Swedish (and Seattle U) more easily than the perennially overcrowded 2/3/4 routes.
If we had 1/10th of NYC’s total transit capacity, I’d think I’d died and gone to heaven.
All modes work together. I wonder if there are a few in Vancouver that think why do they need a Downtown Streetcar when they got the Expo, Millenium, Canada and under construction Evergreen Lines, which use SkyTrain Technology.(I think for the moment Evergreen LINE will be the same as the other lines, they keep changing it between SkyTrain and conventional Light Rail.) The city is going to use Vancouver B.C. is going to try out a streetcar demo during the Olympics, in addition to Victoria’s(metaphor for the Provincial Government, which sits there, currently run by a Liberal MLA(Member of Legislative Assembly) from Vancouver) push for Hydrogen-fueled buses. Also improved in Vancouver recently is the bus system, and the trackless trolley fleets.
http://www.bombardier.com/en/transportation/media-centre/press-releases/details?docID=0901260d80050cf3
I would not want to be a driver going up against the Bombardier Flexxity, especially if it is the same model used in Europe, these range from 3-7 sections, in fact, the one they are going to use in Vancouver during the Olympics, is 32 meters, or nearly 105 feet long. The Inekon Trio cars used on South Lake Union is around 66 feet, just a little longer than an articulated bus.
Well, for reference, the streetcars *can* run on the Link tracks if needed. And the two Links can run on each others’ tracks. It’s platforms which cause the main incompatibilities. (Tacoma and Central Link have different electrical power but that can be changed without rebuilding.)
So the incompatibility, although bad, can be dealt with. The basic functional difference between the modes is one of stop spacing. You don’t want to run the same vehicles for Sounder stop spacing and for streetcar stop spacing. However, if you could run the streetcars up the Link tracks to get to a servicing depot, *that* is a useful compatibility, and you’re not far from having that.
Nobody would care that there are different underlying systems if the rules on them are the same. It’s only serious transit geeks that care that Tacoma Link and the SLUT use the same kind of streetcar but that Tacoma Link tracks are built for heavier cars. But a *lot* of people are uncomfortable taking transit when they don’t know the rules. (How much do I need to pay? When and where do I pay? Do I need to ding something to get it to stop? Etc.) IMHO, the key to making passengers comfortable with multiple systems integration is integrating the rules as much as possible. It’s disappointing that ORCA (the regional shared fare-pay card) appears to be on hold.
But back to the original topic of delayed streetcar expansion, while I’m disappointed not to be getting more streetcars soon, I can see a lot of good reasons for waiting. Most notably, the Bush-appointed transportation administration is strongly anti-rail and has been *very* hesitant to give out federal money via the Small Starts program (a program the Oregon congressional delegation created specifically to help fund streetcar programs). With a new administration (and/or time for Oregon’s updated and more explicitly pro-streetcar legislation to become law), there may well be more federal money available for an expansion. Additionally, with a few more years, South Lake Union will be more built-out and I suspect it’ll be more obvious that the SLUT is exceeding ridership expectations.
One huge issue with the delay is I’d like to see the 1st Ave line in place before the viaduct comes down. I think this is going to be a key traffic mitigation measure. In fact isn’t there some state funding specifically for transit improvements during viaduct construction?
Another issue is going to be having to build a separate O&M base for the First Hill line. While another O&M base is likely in the cards as the current SLU O&M base can only really handle one more vehicle without needing to be expanded I’d hate to see the First Hill O&M base built in such a way that vehicles from other lines won’t be able to use it.
For those of you not in the know the First Hill line will very likely use single-ended trams with dual trolley-pole electrical pickups so they can share the electric trolley bus overhead wire network. This is necessary because of the large number of ETB routes crossing the route of the First Hill line.