Sound Transit is seeking public comment on its bus service improvement proposals that will begin in September 2010 and February 2011. This will be the third and final phase of bus service improvements as part of the Sound Transit 2 package approved by voters last year. A summary of the proposals:
- New Route 542 Redmond – I-5/NE 65th St P&R via University District Express with 15-minute service in both directions, from 6 am to 10 am and from 2 pm to 7 pm, beginning September 2010
- Increased service on routes 511, 513, 522, 532, and 554, beginning February 2011. Route 511 Seattle-Lynnwood and 554 Seattle-Issaquah will have 15-minute service throughout the day on weekdays.
- New stop at the Mountlake Terrace Freeway Station for routes 511 and 513, beginning February 2011.
- Extension of Route 566 in February 2011 (replacing the 564 and 565 next February) from Overlake to the Redmond Transit Center.
Sound Transit will hold open houses at the Overlake Transit Center on October 27, Mountlake Terrace Library on October 29, and the University Heights Center on November 5, all from 4 pm to 7 pm, followed by a public hearing in Union Station on November 19 at 11:30 am. Details of the service improvements and open houses are in the Fall 2009 issue of Regional Transit News.
The 542 can’t come soon enough. I know I’m not the only person who commutes from the U-District/Wallingford/etc. to Microsoft. It will be so nice not to have to worry about connecting at Montlake anymore…
Does anyone know if Metro plans to restructure the 242 when the ST 542 starts up? The new route essentially duplicates the 242 except for the segment between 65th Street and Shoreline. This part of the route was fairly weak on ridership when I was riding the 242 regularly.
No Ballard Sounder stop in ST2?
ST2 includes stations at Ballard and Broad Station, but hasn’t secured funding for those.
I have to hand it to ST in terms of really setting up a pretty well-thought out route with the 542. The 242 is a nice route but it’s a total milk run. Too bad I left Microsoft in 2006 and moved out of the north end a matter of months later!
Hmm… according to the newsletter, when the 566 is extended to Redmond TC, it will no longer serve OTC directly. Instead, it will use the nearby freeway stations.
For northbound trips, this seems fine; it’s what the 545 does, and the freeway stop might as well be inside the transit center.
But for southbound trips, especially at peak commute hours, this is ridiculous! Are they really going to tell everyone who wants to go home from work, “sorry, you have to cross 520”?
The right thing to do here is exactly what the 545 does: after 3-4 PM or so (i.e. when afternoon rush hour starts), make a detour off the highway to serve OTC. This will add at most 2-3 minutes to the trip, but it will save busloads of people from lots of aggravation.
Maybe you should send an email suggesting that.
Do you think they could build a pedestrian overpass?
There is an overpass! It’s called NE 40th St. The walk probably only takes 3 minutes.
Actually, it would add more than 2-3 minutes for a bus to go into the Transit Center. The traffic lights have pretty long cycles and there is alot of traffic congestion on NE 40th St. When I used to drive the 545, this was the worst part of the route. If it were up to me, the 545 should serve NE40th Freeway Station only, at all times. It’s not fair for the people going from Redmond to Seattle. I believe it adds closer to 8 minutes to Serve the OVTC. However, when 545 rolls through the TC it really fills up. So I guess its reasonable considering the amount of passengers that board there. On the other hand, I don’t believe the 564/565’s pick up nearly as many people in Overlake. Plus its already a long route from Redmond to Auburn, so why add 10 more minutes. Walking across NE 40th doesn’t take more than 3-4 minutes, so whats the big deal? I can think of many other P&R/freeway stations where people have to walk about the same distance or more. (Examples: Eastgate Freeway Station-Eastgate P&R. Or Kingsgate P&R-Totem Lake Freeway Station)
I have to agree with Casey on how long it takes the 545 to serve the Overlake transit center. The routing has four left turns at traffic lights, plus three more traffic lights where it goes straight, plus two signals where it goes right. It adds close to 10 minutes to the trip time if you are coming from Redmond or NE 51st.
But… if you are coming from a Microsoft shuttle dropped off at the transit center, it takes longer than 3 minutes to walk across the freeway, and if it is raining or windy, it is not pleasant.
The reconstruction of NE 40th and the transit center was not done in a way that permits efficient operation – it either slows the bus or requires a long walk, with pedestrian crossings across two freeway ramps with a lot of traffic.
Maybe the answer during rush hours is alternating buses originate at the transit center or come from Redmond and just serve the freeway.
But that impacts effective headways. Same effect as the proposal to eliminate the Montlake freeway station when the 520 bridge is rebuilt – now a bus has to be dedicated to the University or downtown Seattle and CANNOT SERVE BOTH.
I have to agree with Casey on how long it takes the 545 to serve the Overlake transit center. The routing has four left turns at traffic lights, plus three more traffic lights where it goes straight, plus two signals where it goes right. It adds close to 10 minutes to the trip time if you are coming from Redmond or NE 51st.
But… if you are coming from a Microsoft shuttle dropped off at the transit center, it takes longer than 3 minutes to walk across the freeway, and if it is raining or windy, it is not pleasant.
The reconstruction of NE 40th and the transit center was not done in a way that permits efficient operation – it either slows the bus or requires a long walk, with pedestrian crossings across two freeway ramps with a lot of traffic.
Maybe the answer during rush hours is alternating buses originate at the transit center or come from Redmond and just serve the freeway.
But that impacts effective headways. Same effect as the proposal to eliminate the Montlake freeway station when the 520 bridge is rebuilt – now a bus has to be dedicated to the University or downtown Seattle and CANNOT SERVE BOTH.
the long delay on serving the transit center is, interestingly, one that affects riders on their way home as opposed to on their way in.
somehow, i suspect that design decision was not by accident. going home == your time… they want to get you there as quick as possible, and then, once it’s time to go, well, you’re on your own :)
there are a few possible solutions to speed buses on their way home (i always thought it would be neat to allow the 545 to spit out of the TC into the EB offramp at 40th, then cut over the bridge making the U turn to the WB onramp where there would be no freeway stop. i’m sure there are a million reasons why this couldn’t be done but it always seemed reasonable – at least compared to the zillions-of-lefts that are mentioned above.
The 40th street overpass is a very dangerous pedestrian crossing (all directions). I think they did away with the right on red on the eastbound off ramp ramp. They should do the same on the westbound off ramp and especially from 40th to westbound 520!
Center HOV lanes are only a few years away. I wouldn’t expect any major changes until then. Link will be a few more years after than. Overlake Village is the real stinker. That lot has been at about 1/3 capacity forever. They should ditch it and take the opportunity to build a proper transit center on or near the old Group Health site and the new (not yet open) 36th street overpass. Then they could avoid the stupid at grade segment through Overlake and preserve some semblance of a pedestrian and bike friendly corridor.
I don’t think it’s that dangerous…
It’s not anymore dangerous than any other crosswalks anywhere else.
Just stumbled on this looking for something else. 40th is a very dangerous pedestrian crossing. One of the problems is that there is a right turn lane to west bound 520. Drivers vision of the crosswalk is obscured by traffic (often a MS Connector bus). They should stop before the crosswalk and not blast through but they do. I’ve seen people hit here twice. People exiting from 520 west bound are also a hazard as they look only for traffic westbound on 40th and (hopefully) anybody already in the crosswalk. They have no clue that someone on a bike could be doing ~15mph+ and enter the crosswalk from the 520 trail with a walk signal. This issue is also present at 51st but there is less traffic, better visibility and usually lower speed because of the preceding hill. Another really dangerous crosswalk is at the end of the 520 trail in Redmond.
So, personally, I use the 545 every day, and I wish the bus didn’t waste five minutes (yes, five) going through eight stoplights (yes, eight) to go to OTC. Yes, people should be able to walk to the other side of the freeway – or, even better, we should have built a median stop.
Even if you build a stop in the median…….the Microsoft people will complain about it. Because it will still be more than a few steps from shuttle bus to the 545.
Microsoft employs over 30,000 people in the Puget Sound area. If transit changes make it more difficult for these employees to commute to work — even if it only adds a 3-4 minute walk — then some employees who previously used transit will decide to drive. Depending on how many this is, this will make congestion worse for everyone.
Regardless, there’s probably a simpler solution: just modify the Microsoft shuttle routes so that they drop people off at the westbound freeway station. :)
Yes, I know. Remember though…….this whole topic started about the new 566 route. I above said, while it took a long time for 545’s to serve the Transit Center, it was reasonable because of the # of people it serverd. However, the existing 564/565 riders weren’t enough, that when their route is extended to Redmond, it should stay on the freeway station.
Currently, the boarding counts for the 564/565 look something like this:
– At OTC: Some people
– At 40th w/b freeway stop: Some people
– At stops eastbound of OTC: 0, because it doesn’t stop there. :D
After the change, the numbers will look like this:
– At 40th w/b freeway stop, and would use OTC if they could: X people
– At 40th w/b freeway stop by choice: Y people
– At stops eastbound of OTC: Z people
If there are certain trips where X is significantly bigger than Z — and I believe that most afternoon rush hour trips will have this property — then the detour to OTC will help more people than it hurts.
You sound pretty certain that X is not bigger than Z, but I’m not at all sure that this is the case. During rush hour, the 564/565 always seem pretty packed…
People work on both sides of 520. And, from my experience riding the 545, just about as many people get on at the western onramp in the eveneings as get on at the OTC.
Are we to assume a bus with 15-minute service till 10 p.m. has like 30- or 60-minute service till like 1 a.m.? Anything that makes it easier to get back from a wild night of drinking Fat Tire and betting quarters on track cycling at the Marymoor Velodrome is a great improvement.
I don’t think so. Few routes outside Seattle run every 15 minutes til 10 pm. I can think of Link and the future RapidRide A Line that do. Both the 545 and 550 end service before midnight.
When I said throughout the day, I mean AM peak, midday, and PM peak, which usually ends around 6 pm.
So will the 510 not serve Mountlake Terrace?
Good question. The newsletter mentions that the stop only adds a minute to the schedule and station will also be served by CT commuter buses. So why not the 510?
Im sure that 510 will stop there. Probably just got left off the information for added service. I can’t see why it wouldn’t.
That Kingsgate-Totem Lake walk is exactly why my mom won’t take the bus to work.
I’m not saying that it is necessarily best to run through Overlake as opposed to stopping at the freeway station; I’m just saying that if you inconvenience passengers enough (especially choice-riders) they aren’t going to ride anymore. If they find that enough people will walk to the freeway station than that’s probably the better option. I bet that you’d find that more people would have a problem with walking further rather than waiting longer on the bus at the transit center.
Given that that lot is at 100% capacity I don’t think Metro or ST really need to change anything. From previous threads comments about decreasing the frequency of stops I think the “choice riders” (ones that choose transit) are willing to walk to improve route times.
With Overlake the traffic on 156th and NE 40th is aweful. Stopping at 50th and 40th seems to make sense. I guessing most of the riders are Microsoft and the inter campus shuttles will be running to/from the new expansion at 40th pretty regularly. For Nintendo and everyone that lives/works along 148th the freeway stops are much closer. I wonder what they have planned for after 520 is converted to center HOV lanes?
It might not be a bad idea to send in an e-mail just in case.
As regular and predictably-late passenger on the 511, I’m getting very tired of losing paid time because Lynnwood service can’t keep schedule.
Holdups both directions on I-5 are bad enough- southbound delays make northbound buses arrive and depart late. “Express lanes” northbound are as slow as all the other lanes most days. And it’s ridiculous that in all these years we haven’t managed to get a southbound PM express lane at all between Northgate and Downtown.
But dumber than that, and much easier to fix, is that it often takes fifteen minutes for a Lynnwood bus to get from Olive and Fifth by the Medical-Dental Building to the freeway.
511 and 513 belong in the Tunnel. Much as I hate the whole “subarea” idea, it’s only fair that if Sea-Tac and Bellevue get Tunnel service, Lynnwood and Everett deserve some too.
I know, CT doesn’t have any hybrids. Well, that’s what a Regional transit agency is for- arranging deals and trades. Can’t believe there isn’t Federal money available for this one- it would save a fortune on operating time.
Mark Dublin
I’ve had pretty good luck with the 511 since I’ve moved to Lynnwood, although I usually travel during off-peak hours. The tunnel would be great, but it obviously isn’t going to happen. Besides, you start throwing more express buses in there on top of all the other buses and Link and it won’t be much faster than surface streets. Buses and trains will get backed up real quick.
..and the feds are giving money to CT for hybrids
http://www.northwesthub.org/Green-Transit-Stimulus-Grants-575
174 is already out of the Tunnel. 194 ditto when Sea-Tac station opens. Doesn’t that leave room for the 511 and the 513? Try peak-hour travel like I have to do.
“And it’s ridiculous that in all these years we haven’t managed to get a southbound PM express lane at all between Northgate and Downtown.”
Has anybody tried? I’ve never heard of this. The express lanes were made for people who work downtown in the daytime.
The last thing this area needs is any more “free”way lanes.
Right. So let’s turn some of the ones we’ve got into bus lanes.
The express lanes were designed and built a half century ago. But what difference does it make? It’s all concrete, rebar, and public right of way. Sacramento LRT runs on structure originally designed for a freeway.
Only King County Metro operates in the tunnel and the 550 (Metro operated ST route & Link is also Metro operated) Plus I’m sure everyone wishes their bus would be in the tunnel. Also, in 2016 when Univ Link starts up, the increased train headways will force all bus serve out of the tunnel.
What difference does it make which agency operates the bus? I didn’t vote- and spend a lot of time campaigning for- Sound Transit thirteen years ago to be dealing with a collection of county buslines now.
If the 511 was “my bus”, I’d be able to get a seat. It’s a lot of other people’s bus too. I don’t live in Everett either. I’ve got three local routes I regularly use as well, and none of them belong in the Tunnel.
By the same criteria as the 550 and the 194, the 511 and 513 should be Tunnel routes.
2016 is seven years from now, and ST’s boring machines have a glacial mess ahead of them. One problem under the Zoo set Portland back a year. From the time the Tunnel opened in 1990, it took nineteen years to get the first leg of LINK running. When the trains get here, take the buses out. Meantime, why should north-end service put up with seven years- or more- of traffic jams?
Trains aren’t supposed to get to Lynnwood ’til what, 2023? Bottom line is, I’ve spent twenty-seven years watching politicians use the light rail of the future as an excuse to be lazy about the bus service of the present. Some exercise will do them good.
550 and 194 don’t meet the same criteria as the 510,511,513’s. First off as I said before. Everything in the tunnel is operated by Metro, including Link. Metro operators are trained for tunnel service. Not CT, PT, or First Transit Operators. Secondly, I don’t believe any new routes will be added when the 194 is deleted. When the 174 was pulled, I know a few existing routes got service improvements such as the 106 during rush hour. Plus the existing routes are all very busy routes and most should have more service such as the 41,71,72,73,74 which can be overloaded on sometrips before getting to the last tunnel station. Other routes in the tunnel too are also very busy but I only mentioned a few above as examples.
Continued from just above……..
Remember when the Tunnel was closed in Sept 05? Some routes that were in there never returned…..177,190,196,266,306,312. I believe those routes would be the first to return if more buses were added to the tunnel. Also, at one point the 522 was planned as a tunnel routes to be like the 306/312 but was not because the tunnel was at capacity. Then there are probably about a hundred Metro commuter routes or Metro operated ST routes that would go in before CT. For example the I-90 corridor. You already have the 212,217,225,229,550. Why not make the whole corridor tunnel routes. 111,114,210,214,215,216,554. That won’t happen though because not all coaches require 60 footers. So even if it got to the point of adding multiple agencies into the tunnel, why would 511 get prioirty over any of the 590 series routes, or the 20 or so CT commuters routes? See, I know you really would like it to happen, but it’s just not going to. First, because they just aren’t going to add routes to the tunnel in the first place. And secondly, remember the Tunnel was owned by Metro and was all Metro service. Even though ST owns the tunnel now, its still all Metro routes (550 is just a renumbered Metro route…used to be the 226) and Link. Metro operators drive all tunnel coaches and operate Link. And the tunnel is contolled by Link control, from inside the Metro Control Center, by Metro Supervisors.
I wholeheartedly agree with your points about the ridiculously unreliable 511 southbound schedule.
Just as annoying, and hopefully addressed by the new service schedule, is the fact that the last northbound 511 of the day leaves downtown Seattle at 11:30pm (11:50pm from the U-District). It strikes me as absurd that there isn’t at least one more route at a later hour, especially since that final route is regularly at 50%+ capacity.
Looking at the lot usage reports I’m wondering why use at Woodinville has dropped off so much, 60% to 37% from ’07 to ’08. One reason I can theorize is that because of the economic downturn traffic is much lighter making it more attractive for those that still have jobs to drive. Rate increases probably also pushed some people in that direction. Both of these, combined with fewer people working has resulted in a small drop off in transit ridership but not to this extent (60% to 37%).
Were there major changes to routes that would account for the drop?
Nearby P&R lots remain at or above capacity. Perhaps there was reserve demand at those lots (more demand than space) so that for every person that quit riding the bus there was someone else ready to fill that space.
In 2008 we saw gas prices shoot above $4/gallon followed by a sharp fall to below $2 at the end of ’08. That should have increased transit use.
The 522 got increased peak-hour service last year but beginning from UW Bothell instead of Woodinville. Apparently it wasn’t enough to handle the overloads as they’re adding more. 372 to the UW also got more morning trips. The 311 lost a roundtrip to Duvall in ’08.
Morning traffic on south 405 from Woodinville is still bad, being crowded as late as 9 am. I carpool or take the bus.
Annoyingly Metro only posts the 4th quarter reports. It would be interesting to look at the month to month numbers for ’08 and see how it tracked with gas prices. Interestingly for every year that they have posted on line there is a big jump from October utilization to Nov/Dec utilization. People don’t want to drive (or ride bikes, walk) when it’s dark and raining? Gas prices traditionally rise in winter due to home heating oil demand? Didn’t search other lots; maybe it’s just a Woodinville phenomenon but the jump is an increase of 10-30% every year.
Top Gear on BBC America this Monday, Jeromy in a Nissan GT-R races against Richard and James who must navigate the counties public transportation system.
Yeah, I’ve seen that episode. I would have beaten them hands down if I had been riding the train – they gave the car a number of gimmes.
So, I went to the open house at Overlake. I found out a couple of tidbits:
– The 542 will almost definitely be happing (yay), because of the pending elimination of the Montlake freeway station (boo).
– The 542 is currently only scheduled for peak and extended-peak runs. There will be no service after 7pm, not even at reduced frequency.
– Sound Transit is fully aware of both the time cost of diversions (i.e. leaving the highway to go to OTC) and the number of passengers boarding at each stop. They have a formula they use to determine whether each diversion is worthwhile. For the 545, on evening trips, the formula currently says yes. For the 542 and 566, they’ll crunch the numbers and make the appropriate decision.