20 Replies to “Seattle Streetcar on Streetfilms”

  1. Thats a pretty cool video. Now, while its working so well and making everyone happy, make it bigger!

  2. Nice Summary. It would be nice if the headways were closer to 7 mins. 15 is far too long. Also they should extend it towards UW in the north and near Safeco Field in the South. Now you move buses to other areas and reduce the wait times. Also does anyone know why the speed of the trolley is so slow? Can it go faster 30-40 MPH? Cheers!

    1. I think the cars themselves have top speeds of around 50~55 mph. The speed limit on that street is 25 mph, though, and it’s metro’s policy to drive them a little slower than that.

    2. The trolleys goes slow because it has to run in traffic, so they’re governed to ~30mph since that’s the max road speed. Portlands Streetcar is governed to 30mph (MAX to 55mph). There is an override switch, but it penalizes the operator.

      A streetcar from the UW to Safeco Field? Or even better, you might say, Husky Stadium to Safeco Field? Umm, Link Light Rail?

  4. I think we need a ‘streetcar vs. trollybus’ post, as previously suggested, because I need some convincing. I fail to see how the SLUT line would be equally well served by a bus route. And in my opinion, expanding the SLUT to UW would be a colossal waste of money considering how many busses (and soon, the grade separated Link) already connect UW to downtown quite well. Does anyone have a problem getting from UW to downtown? How about after Link?

    I’m not against streetcars, I ride one every day, but Seattle has it all wrong. They should be branched off Sounder and Link stations as a way to shuttle people to these transit centres. Seattle seems to think they can run these things on long routes through the busiest intersections in the region, sharing a right of way with busses, cars, trucks, bikes, and pedestrians. What an expensive mess.

    2. It really doesn’t work when Sounder service is during peak times only and can’t be expanded to mid-day service because of BNSF. And Sounder already ties into Link at KSS and International District. The SLUT is already branched off a Link, monorail, and a major bus station/intersection. It is purposly ran though busy intersections for that exact reason, they’re BUSY. Thats where the PEOPLE are. The old waterfront streetcar is also branched off a Link station. The first Ave line is 2 blocks away from 2 Link stations and will have a terminus at one as well as near the monorail, a major bus hub, and a potential Sounder station. The Ballard line will terminate at Westlake and serve many bus hubs in Freemont and Ballard. The PURPOSE of the Capitol Hill line is to tie the CHS and IDS together while providing local service to Capitol Hill. All the proposed lines all tie in with the Link with less than a block’s walk. And these systems do tie together very well with other forms of transit, providing different levels of express and local service to many different regions in the city and Puget Sound region. You’ve just got to look a map.

      I would be caught dead on a bus from the UW to downtown. The three times I’ve done it (all off peak), the ride was slow, uncomfortable, and packed. Its a car for me until the Link comes. The benefit of SLUT to UW is that people and businesses along Eastlake Ave will have a better means of transferring to the UW, downtown, or Link if they live between Roosevelt, UWS, or Westlake.

      Link = express, Streetcar = local

      BTW, the SLUTs ridership is some 25% better than the old bus route that used to serve the same area and ~35% better than projected. The ride itself is a lot more fun and enjoyable than a bus can ever be. Smooth, quite, bright, and nobody yelling at themselves (which drives people off our Sound Transit buses, like the 550). You may not feel that, but many do. And its something we take into consideration when designing a multi-modal system.

      1. Where do you come up with that number? There is no “old bus route” that the streetcar replaced. And besides, 25% growth is not very impressive if it means 50% more operating costs and 1000% more capital cost.
        Ethan didn’t talk about the service cuts to other Seattle neighborhoods like the Rainier Valley in order to ensure the streetcar can serve the South Lake Union.
        The vehicles are very cool. Don’t get me wrong. They have appeal. But build them right and not where there is existing electrified infrastructure that can do nearly the same thing. Just give the trolleybuses a cool paint job and better fare policies and some real time signs. Maybe you only get a 10% increase in ridership, but it only costs 50% more in capital costs and then you have more money leftover to spend on other transit corridors.

      2. The costs incurred by KCMetro is the same between bus and rail service in this corridor. Funding is a non-issue, since they are different revenue streams.

        Tipping over into the idea of redirecting a revenue stream is dangerous, since it’s dangerously close to capitulating to the idea of things like reapportioning Sound Transit dollars to build roads through Walla Walla.

      4. Cross Cut did a recent piece on this, Morph Seattle trolleys into a new Green Line. The figure $40M for a mile of streetcar track sounds about right. Not sure about the $8 for trolley bus but if that’s in the ball park it’s 5X per mile. That seems pretty hard to make up with a 20% increase in ridership.

        A streetcar has a big advantage if demand is high. Currently the SLUT is operating at about what, 10% of capacity over the course of a week? I couldn’t find the power consumption ratings but I have to wonder how the energy per person mile works out. Is it closer to say a Vespa or a single person driving an SUV?

  5. Awwwww… Isn’t Ethan cute?

    But seriously, the SLUT is not providing “good, local transit service.” As has been said above, it’s too slow and too infrequent.

    Buses provide good, local transit service for much less money.

    Streetcars need to move more people and/or move them faster than buses. Otherwise, we have a really nice motivator of new development. Now that’s just fine for the City, and is working well in South Lake Union; but that doesn’t solve our inner-city transportation problem.

    1. Is that why we’re building Link, expanding express service, increasing sounder service and looking into other partnerships to expand local bus service?

      You’d think Streetcars ate babies or something…

    2. Streetcars DO move more people than buses. A 20 meter Inekon Trio holds more people than a 60′ trolleybus. If you need to haul more you have the Pento and like LRVs streetcars can be made to MU.

  6. What really makes multi-modal transit systems work well is a plethora of connections between the multiple modes. That is why it is an absolute must to extend the SC on both ends to provide useful intermodal connections in addition to serving a larger ridership base.

    In particular, on the north end the SC needs to be extended through the Eastlake neighborhood to tie into University Link at the Brooklyn Station near the UW. On the south end it needs to be extended through downtown to tie into both Link and Sounder somewhere near KSS. For the extension through downtown I’d run it on a couplet of one way lines running on 4th and 5th.

    Per the headways, my understanding is that they undersized the electrical system for the first line and they really need another transformer substation so they can run all three SC’s simultaneously, but that is TBV.

    In any case, the current system has been a success even with its current small size. It will be even more of a success if they expand it.

  7. It seems like a waste to run the streetcar up Eastlake to UW. Yes, UW is a huge destination and transit hub but it is getting Link in just a few more years. I’d much rather see a streetcar line go to Fremont or Ballard where there *won’t* be Link from downtown until ST3 (generally a very long time from now) instead of duplicating a much faster mode that will already be in place and replacing an equally fast but not as “cute” mode that exists today (aka BUS). Someone commented that they wouldn’t be “caught dead” on a bus because they are so crowded. That in itself is a commentary that the bus already works and a major reason that Link is going to the UW. Large numbers of people already ride transit to and from UW, and adding the streetcar is a very expensive way to add very limited new riders. Why would anyone (in the future) choose to ride a streetcar from Westlake to UW when Link will take 7 minutes!!

  8. Thanks for the comments, well; the slut could connect a different part of the UW campus (west side of UW) vs the Link (North and East Side.) You could connect the Slut to a station near the North Link, thus allowing Metro to move those buses to East/West route. Slut need min 7 min headways before people will take it seriously. 500,000 riders is too little (Surprised Seattle City is bragging about that). If done right, 2,000,000 plus riders is very possible, and if extended to Chinatown/Safeco Field. I would not be surprised if it hits 4,000,000-5,000,000 rider. Now you’ve got critical mass. but only if frequencies are improved, otherwise very difficult if it’s faster and easier to just get in your car. You gotta beat the car on speed and ease of use. 10 mins to reach the end of the line (1.3 miles)is too slow to get people out of cars. Slut has a lot of potential if the politicians pick up the pace and get people moving (faster) Cheers, pty

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